Cobb County official floats idea for floating train to Dunwoody (Sandy Springs: transfer, bankrupt)

[LynnHarris]

First I have ever heard of this...




Cobb County official floats idea for floating train to Dunwoody


A Powder Springs company is developing a proposal to build a transit line using magnetic levitation technology from Kennesaw State University in west Cobb County, across the top of the Perimeter, to Dunwoody in north DeKalb County.


Cobb County Commissioner Bob Ott discussed the plan at a Thursday meeting of the Cumberland Community Improvement District.


Ott said that American Maglev Technology is preparing a proposal for a 22-mile line, costing $400 million to $500 million, to be built using private funding along I-575 and I-75 from Kennesaw State south to the vicinity of Cumberland Mall in Smyrna.


The line then would turn east, possibly run parallel to I-285, cross Sandy Springs and terminate at Perimeter Mall in Dunwoody. There, it could connect to the MARTA Red Line.


Each train would float on a cushion of magnetic force and carry 110 passengers at a speed of about 60 mph. The fare would be $4...




Cobb County official floats idea for floating train to Dunwoody *| ajc.com

[ATL Golfer]

All this to connect to MARTA? Never going to happen.

[mike7586]

I think it's worth considering and it should connect to MARTA if people work in Midtown/Downtown or need to get to the airport, they can transfer at Dunwoody station...

Transportation Movie - Maglev Trains

My only issue is the 35,000 rider per day requirement because in order to ensure a certain amount of riders, they would restrict any other transportation improvements in that corridor... the problem with private companies building public transportation is that they don't want any other project (like road improvements) to compete with... they are more focused on making a profit then doing the public good... so they could build this rail line and basically GDOT or Cobb County, etc could not build any other road projects that would possibly reduce ridership... this is also most likely one reason why GDOT pulled the plug on the public/private partnership for the HOT lanes.

However, judging by traffic patterns, I'm sure this would get pretty high ridership... if most people in Cobb commute to Cumberland or Perimeter.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

All this to connect to MARTA? Never going to happen.

Get out of this mantra that it even needs to connect to MARTA, but as mentioned it could at Perimeter mall or thereabouts.

If the goal is to impact on Cobb County and perimeter traffic, then this would be a good idea. Not sure the whole mag lev thing is realistic, but I've agreed with others who think that a line from Kennesaw to north Fulton or Dunwoody makes a ton more sense than what was originally proposed. It's not transit per se, but the correct transit that will be useful to people and actually get ridden.

You just need to get out of the mindset that it needs to connect to MARTA as a primary goal. If it does...OK. If it doesn't....OK. I would support something like this, if done correctly.

[mike7586]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Get out of this mantra that it even needs to connect to MARTA, but as mentioned it could at Perimeter mall or thereabouts.

If the goal is to impact on Cobb County and perimeter traffic, then this would be a good idea. Not sure the whole mag lev thing is realistic, but I've agreed with others who think that a line from Kennesaw to north Fulton or Dunwoody makes a ton more sense than what was originally proposed. It's not transit per se, but the correct transit that will be useful to people and actually get ridden.

You just need to get out of the mindset that it needs to connect to MARTA as a primary goal. If it does...OK. If it doesn't....OK. I would support something like this, if done correctly.

What's wrong with that mindset though? It makes more sense to connect to an existing system, like MARTA... this area (well Fulton and Dekalb) has invested a lot of money into the system, it pretty much connects every major job center except North Fulton (which is still doable in the future) and Cumberland, and it goes to the airport.

It doesn't make any sense to build a hodgepodge of transit lines and not have them connect to each other.

[Mishap]

So, the math doesn't make sense. If the train only holds 110 passengers, they have to send trains every 6-7min throughout the day (18hrs/day) to hit 35,000 passengers. To actually get profitable, they'd have to enlarge the trains significantly, charge more, or build it for a lot less (fed gov't bankroll?).

Some math:
35,000 daily riders/110 riders/train = 318.18 train trips (both ways)
318/2 = 160 (rounded up for 1 way traffic)
18 hr work day (6am -12am)
(180*60 min) / 160 = 6.75 min/train

Anyone that's ridden Marta knows that the only really busy times are commuting hrs so 110 passenger trains would be woefully inadequate to support that # of people. Something is fishy w/ their estimates. Either that's per car or they plan on having trains running very closely and have the ability to add/reduce trains almost instantly. The throughput just isn't there at that capacity...your avg NYC subway car holds over 200 people (40 seated).

Also, it's not a great return on capital. If you drop $400M, and require 35,000 passengers...you're still only pulling $51M/yr. It'd be 8yrs for payback (if you completely ignore op-ex) so you're looking at 15-20yrs minimum unless they have wildly high ridership expectations by having a clause to install 50% more traffic lights on every connecting road through the county.

I'm not against mass transit if it makes since but this sounds like a half a billion dollar boondoggle that will either bankrupt the company or the county.

[K-SawDude]

Like the idea, but I'd have a few concerns about whether or not this was usable (for someone like me, who might be a potential rider).

I'd need to commute between Kennesaw State and West Midtown. Currently, MARTA bus goes from West Midtown to Cumberland, but there's no way for me to get from West Midtown all the way to KSU within any reasonable amount of time/transfers. (In fact, a search on Marta's website doesn't return any possibilities, as I suspect the total trip would be 3+ hours.)

So this Maglev train might make it possible IF it stops at Cumberland (which I'm assuming it would).

--But would they charge only a partial rate between KSU to Cumberland, say $2 per ride? $4 each way is much too expensive.

--Since it's private, I'm assuming there would be no "transfer discount" when shifting from a MARTA entity to this MAGLEV train. If so, that's going to make it much more expensive (and much less attractive) for travelers.

--I very much like the idea of transit that connects along the perimeter. But there ARE also those of us who commute between intown and suburban areas like Kennesaw. And I'd be more than happy to commute on transit if it were (a) existent, and (b) not prohibitively expensive.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by mike7586

What's wrong with that mindset though? It makes more sense to connect to an existing system, like MARTA... this area (well Fulton and Dekalb) has invested a lot of money into the system, it pretty much connects every major job center except North Fulton (which is still doable in the future) and Cumberland, and it goes to the airport.

It doesn't make any sense to build a hodgepodge of transit lines and not have them connect to each other.

The suggested line WOULD connect to MARTA, so the point raised was actually moot, but if a line can be built now that solves a real traffic/transit issue, then I say build it. If it connects to MARTA now, fine, but if it doesn't, then honestly, I say who cares.

Maybe it can connect as part of a second phase, but the goal is to solve a real issue. I find it ironic that some are fine with a line from midtown to Cumberland that would probably see limited ridership and support, on the theory that it will connect to the real population center in a second phase (and even then have questionable ridership), but they would have an issue with a line that could solve an immediate problem, probably see better ridership, but possibly connect to MARTA later.

[mike7586]

Originally Posted by neil0311

The suggested line WOULD connect to MARTA, so the point raised was actually moot, but if a line can be built now that solves a real traffic/transit issue, then I say build it. If it connects to MARTA now, fine, but if it doesn't, then honestly, I say who cares.

Maybe it can connect as part of a second phase, but the goal is to solve a real issue. I find it ironic that some are fine with a line from midtown to Cumberland that would probably see limited ridership and support, on the theory that it will connect to the real population center in a second phase (and even then have questionable ridership), but they would have an issue with a line that could solve an immediate problem, probably see better ridership, but possibly connect to MARTA later.

It doesn't make any sense to not have it connect to an existing system, and by not doing so I don't think it would be as effective in solving a real traffic/transit issue. We have a decent system with decent ridership... we need to build off of it, either by expanding it or building new lines that connect to it. It should connect to an existing system first and expand off of it, not the other way around.

Not sure why you think it will have "questionable ridership"... I've copied the below in a previous post of mine in a response to you, but maybe you didn't read it...

"Phase 1 would provide fixed guideway improvements between Cumberland/Galleria and the MARTA Arts Center Station. Numerous studies support the feasibility of this project. The 2010 update of the Northwest Corridor Transit Implementation Study (2001) estimates projected ridership of 92,600 boardings by 2025, including circulators. The Northwest Corridor High Capacity Transit System is defined in the Regional Transportation Plan (RTP), and is included in both the Cobb County 2030 Comprehensive Transportation Plan (CTP) and Concept 3 as developed by the Transit Planning Board. If implemented, Phase 1 would provide economic and traffic benefits for the Region as a whole. Specific details will be further determined in an Alternatives Analysis Study, which is currently underway."

There is a possibility this project might not even move forward anyways since there was such backlash in Cobb. I do not have an issue with this maglev proposal as long as it connects to our existing system at Dunwoody AND road improvements in the corridor are not restricted by these private companies.

[tonygeorgia]

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

All this to connect to MARTA? Never going to happen.

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Bill Campbell has a higher chance of becoming the president than this happening