What do you think about the indoor mall? (Bloomingdale, Lenox: restaurants, floor)

[anadyr21]

For me, large, indoor malls have too many stores that I have no interest in. I'm not a teenager anymore and don't enjoy people watching or strolling through the mall, just because.

Outdoor shopping centers, like The Forum in Norcross or The Avenues in Forsyth, have a larger number of stores that I'm interested in, in a more concentrated area.

Also, the clientele is different. Many indoor malls have too many teenagers, or heck, too many people in general for my taste. Other than an occasional trip to Phipps, I have no desire to hit an indoor mall.

[Mirabella]

You've learned what I found out a few years ago. If you want to shop at the Forum in December, you have to go very early to get parking on a Saturday or Sunday or go during the week.

[Newsboy]

The move toward smaller outdoor "lifestyle" centers and away from huge enclosed regeional mega-malls has very little to do with the weather or shopper preference or rowdy teens or real estate, and everything to do with the dramatic change that has taken place in American retail over the past 20 years. For years, the formula to success of an indoor mall was based on keeping 3-4 deaprtment stores as anchor tenants, to pay most of the rent and also keep steady customer traffic coming to the smaller retailers. Except for Lenox and Phipps, every mall built in Atlanta for 30 years had some combination of Rich's, Davisions (later Macy's) JC Penney and Sears -- or all four! In the mid-1990s however, the departmetn store industry got greedy and launched into a wave of mergers, buyouts, conslidations and closerues. Federated acquired Rich's, Macty's acquired Federeated, Macy's closed Rich's (and every other "homegrown" department store chain in the country) leaving gaping vacancies in malls coast to coast. At the same time, the rise in big-box discount retailers drew even MORE shoppers away from traditional department stores and full-service malls, and the rest (as they say) is history. The appeal of these smaller outdoor "lifestyle" centers is obvious: They can succeed with just one (or maybe two) main tenants -- Belk at the Forum in Norcross, Dillards at Ansley Park in Newnan -- and the usual rosters of smaller "niche" tenants like Loft, Gap, Ann Taylor, etc that you see in each and every one.

The era of big new malls being built in Atlanta is over, IMO. But the ones already here are positioned well enough to survive -- as long as they stay current. Shannon Mall is gone, of course, but it never should have been built in the first place. outhlake is in transition but it should be OK.Cumberland has found its niche, and Gwinnett Place is getting there. Northlake needs some work.

To get your fill of retail history, the rise and fall of American shopping malls, links and reviews of major shopping centers past and present and long forgotten, go to deadmalls DOT com or Sky City: Southern Retail Then and Now

[Saintmarks]

Newsboy, have found deadmalls.com one of the most interesting websites ever. Great site

[MathmanMathman]

I wonder if Malls and Mega-Malls have it better in the North. In places like Canada, I'd think the indoor shopping experience would be welcomed during the cold months.

Cost conscious chains seem to use the shopping center rather than the mall. I always see a Best Buy or Target in a shopping center. GNC seems to be malls while its rival Vitamin Shoppe goes for free standing or shopping center stores.

Years ago I heard a prediction of customized merchandise but like a lot of predictions it was too optimistic. But it's still possible I guess. Shopping on-line is growing and has advantages. I'd be nice to send your measurements for clothes and your foot size to a manufacturer, and thanks to computer controls, they can produce clothes that fit you...exactly. Send your shoe size and styling choices to Nike and an automated production line would think of differing cuts no different than as it would the same thing over and over again. Bring the parts together in perfect timing for assembly. Then ship it to you. That's one way to eliminate the guilt of overseas child labor.

It's been a while but in Atlanta and elsewhere, there was an on-line grocery shopping site where you order your stuff and they'd deliver it to you. Great idea in principle but still a bit expensive. It left Atlanta but I don't know if it survived in general. But it would be nice to order produce and meat this way. Then it can literally go from the farm to the distributor to you and not sit on a shelf.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by Newsboy

The move toward smaller outdoor "lifestyle" centers and away from huge enclosed regeional mega-malls has very little to do with the weather or shopper preference or rowdy teens or real estate, and everything to do with the dramatic change that has taken place in American retail over the past 20 years. For years, the formula to success of an indoor mall was based on keeping 3-4 deaprtment stores as anchor tenants, to pay most of the rent and also keep steady customer traffic coming to the smaller retailers. Except for Lenox and Phipps, every mall built in Atlanta for 30 years had some combination of Rich's, Davisions (later Macy's) JC Penney and Sears -- or all four! In the mid-1990s however, the departmetn store industry got greedy and launched into a wave of mergers, buyouts, conslidations and closerues. Federated acquired Rich's, Macty's acquired Federeated, Macy's closed Rich's (and every other "homegrown" department store chain in the country) leaving gaping vacancies in malls coast to coast. At the same time, the rise in big-box discount retailers drew even MORE shoppers away from traditional department stores and full-service malls, and the rest (as they say) is history. The appeal of these smaller outdoor "lifestyle" centers is obvious: They can succeed with just one (or maybe two) main tenants -- Belk at the Forum in Norcross, Dillards at Ansley Park in Newnan -- and the usual rosters of smaller "niche" tenants like Loft, Gap, Ann Taylor, etc that you see in each and every one.

The era of big new malls being built in Atlanta is over, IMO. But the ones already here are positioned well enough to survive -- as long as they stay current. Shannon Mall is gone, of course, but it never should have been built in the first place. Southlake is in transition but it should be OK.Cumberland has found its niche, and Gwinnett Place is getting there. Northlake needs some work.

To get your fill of retail history, the rise and fall of American shopping malls, links and reviews of major shopping centers past and present and long forgotten, go to deadmalls DOT com or Sky City: Southern Retail Then and Now

Perfect post.

Notice my highlights and underlining above.

So well stated.

[johnatl]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

It's been a while but in Atlanta and elsewhere, there was an on-line grocery shopping site where you order your stuff and they'd deliver it to you. Great idea in principle but still a bit expensive. It left Atlanta but I don't know if it survived in general. But it would be nice to order produce and meat this way. Then it can literally go from the farm to the distributor to you and not sit on a shelf.

You're thinking of Webvan. They were wonderful, we still miss them. They really were not that expensive, and the quality was superb.

[MathmanMathman]

Yes, that's them. Webvan was probably ahead of its time. I think it was part of the dot.com surge and bust? Other stores like Kroger were testing their own versions thinking that this might be the wave of the future.

I looked at and determined that Webvan just wasn't cost effective for me. When we recover from this recession, maybe it will be time to revisit the idea but maybe with a different business model.

[arjay57]

Indoor malls are great.

However, my main objection is that most of them were built in the era when the style was to set them way back from the street in a sea of asphalt.

If they were pulled up to the street and had their parking in decks and/or underground, that would be a huge improvement. I believe Lenox and Phipps are moving in that direction, and hopefully other malls will do the same.

[ct36]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Indoor malls are great.

However, my main objection is that most of them were built in the era when the style was to set them way back from the street in a sea of asphalt.

If they were pulled up to the street and had their parking in decks and/or underground, that would be a huge improvement. I believe Lenox and Phipps are moving in that direction, and hopefully other malls will do the same.

I hope that Lenox is trying to do that now. I suppose they could have shoppes all the way up to Peachtree and then have spaces in between stores for the vehicle traffic to go. The only problem with that is that it would become pretty congested. Maybe they could block it off and have a new entrance to the left of it somehow.