African American family-Suwanee Area or Johns Creek/Alpharetta? (Atlanta, Duluth: 2013, homes)

[essentially08]

I love this site and have read through a lot of the threads here about schools and neighborhoods and have found them very helpful. But, I am looking for some honest thoughts about the Suwanee (North Gwinnett) area and Johns Creek/Duluth (Northview HS cluster area), specifically as it pertains to race relations in the various neighborhoods and schools.

We are originally from Northern California and are considering relocating out of the city of Atlanta so that our daughter, who will be in kindergarten next year, can attend a good public school and so that I can start my own business. We would like a neighborhood that is welcoming and diverse and a school that has at least 10% African Americans and a good mix of other ethnicities.

We've visited a host of schools in Suwanee (Riverside, Suwanee, Roberts, Level Creek) and a few in North Fulton (Wilson Creek, Shakerag, Findley Oak, Medlock Bridge). Based upon my tours, it seems as though the N. Gwinnett schools are having some significant cut-backs, larger class sizes and loss of para pros for Kindergarten next year. For these reasons and some others, we prefer the Northview cluster from an academic perspective.

But, we feel as though socially and culturally Suwannee might be better for a middle class African American family as some of the schools are more diverse with African Americans and have principals that are of color. Also, we get the "feeling" that some of the Johns Creek/Duluth neighborhoods and a couple of the elementary schools in the Northview cluster might have issues with race.

I would love to hear the opinions from those on this forum...especially any African American families that live in these areas.

Many thanks in advance!

[BeyondInfinity]

Originally Posted by essentially08

I love this site and have read through a lot of the threads here about schools and neighborhoods and have found them very helpful. But, I am looking for some honest thoughts about the Suwanee (North Gwinnett) area and Johns Creek/Duluth (Northview HS cluster area), specifically as it pertains to race relations in the various neighborhoods and schools.

We are originally from Northern California and are considering relocating out of the city of Atlanta so that our daughter, who will be in kindergarten next year, can attend a good public school and so that I can start my own business. We would like a neighborhood that is welcoming and diverse and a school that has at least 10% African Americans and a good mix of other ethnicities.

We've visited a host of schools in Suwanee (Riverside, Suwanee, Roberts, Level Creek) and a few in North Fulton (Wilson Creek, Shakerag, Findley Oak, Medlock Bridge). Based upon my tours, it seems as though the N. Gwinnett schools are having some significant cut-backs, larger class sizes and loss of para pros for Kindergarten next year. For these reasons and some others, we prefer the Northview cluster from an academic perspective.

But, we feel as though socially and culturally Suwannee might be better for a middle class African American family as some of the schools are more diverse with African Americans and have principals that are of color. Also, we get the "feeling" that some of the Johns Creek/Duluth neighborhoods and a couple of the elementary schools in the Northview cluster might have issues with race.

I would love to hear the opinions from those on this forum...especially any African American families that live in these areas.

Many thanks in advance!

I would go with your gut on this one. While Johns Creek/Duluth are nice, you would feel more at home in Suwanee. Duluth is no slouch in the diversity department; however, Suwanee is diverse as well and the city center in Suwanee is very nice for the family to hangout in on the weekends.

I can't tell you which decision to make, but I can tell you that if I was in the same situation I would most definitely choose Suwanee.

[ATLTJL]

I live in Duluth, kind of nestled between both areas you are talking about. I don't have children, but I can tell you that diversity is certainly no issue here. I'm actually a bit surprised to hear that you saw it in Johns Creek, though I would guess Suwanee is a tad more diverse....not much, just a little.

I wanted to address your comment about the Gwinnett school system, though. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I do know that like most other areas of the country, Gwinnett county has seen a pretty drastic reduction in the budget due to falling home values and reduced property taxes. Since this all started, the county has been well off enough to draw from its rainy day fund to cover shortfalls in the education budget. You're right, this is the first year they have had to add furlough days and increase class sizes. I'm not sure whether it makes more sense to be concerned this is happening, or to be amazed that the county was financially sound enough to stave this off for so many years of a bad economy.

The other thing I wanted to address is you mentioned high schools, so I assume you are looking long picture. It's really hard to judge elmentary schools, so the advice to go with your gut is probably the best advice. Regarding high schools, though, something to consider is that this area has changed so much over the years and continues to do so. Northview is the number one school in Georgia according to Atlanta magazine. That's great, but it also gives you something to consider: The best case scenario for Norhtview is it hangs on to number one. It can't go up, but it can go down.

The good news is both schools you are looking at are excellent. Right now, Northview may be considered slightly better than North Gwinnett. But who knows? 10 years from now, North Gwinnett may be considered better than Northview. I don't think you have to worry about either one of them going down the tubes and becoming horrible (though in this market, anything is possible!), but I would expect the rankings to shuffle from year to year, even if it is rather insignificantly.

Having said all this, a few bottom lines are:

Stability is probably a little better in Johns Creek. It's less likely to go downhill than North Gwinnett. Property taxes, though, are definitely higher there, though, and maybe significantly so. The prestige of north Fulton is a bit higher than that of Gwinnett. The snob factor in Johns Creek is also probably a bit higher, but so is the education level of the average resident.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I answered your question. I'm just not sure if either place would be considered better for African Americans. They seem quite similar to me in that regard, but I haven't paid close attentiont to it before.

[lastminutemom]

Everyone is having cuts, many systems just haven't announced it yet. Fulton went through fairly large cuts last year, not sure what their plans are for next year.

Gwinnett does seem to like to push the class size envelope more. I actually prefer para-pros for K as it is better to have a ratio of say 13 to 1 for K than 18 to 1 if there is no para.

I believe that Fulton will be the first metro county to bounce back, if and when that ever happens.

Fulton schools tend to be a bit more creative and flexible than Gwinnett.

What did you think of the housing stock in your price range in each of your choices?

[wilful]

Wife and I are African American and relocated here about 7 years ago and live very near North Gwinnett High Schol in Suwanee. Wife originally from Southern California and I am from Massachusetts and really enjoy living in Suwanee. We don't have any kids in school as thankfully our child raising days are over with the exception of spoiling the grandchildren. We find Suwanee to be a good place to live and know other AA's of a similar opinion. I am familiar with the Duluth JC area and that also is a good area as well although your gut instinct of favoring Suwanee for the reasons you cited are right on. You can't go wrong in either area but if it were me thinking about where my kids might be more comfortable I would favor Suwanee especially at the HS level.

I attend a fair number of the North Gwinnett sporting events and find the racial diversity (black,white,indian korean,latino,) of the kids in attendance to be both refreshing and impressive. I can only assume the classroom situation mirrors this and would be a healthy learning environment for a child of color. I don't think Northview would be similar to this but it is certainly a highly rated school but so is North Gwinnett. Wish you well whatever you ultimately decide.

[essentially08]

Thank you, Thank you! everyone for your responses, we've found each of them helpful. Lastminutemom, we have found a nice selection of homes within our budget in both of the areas. Although we have noticed that the Johns Creek homes can be a bit more expensive and have higher property taxes. We also feel that the large class sizes in Gwinnett are problematic. I just can't imagine how one teacher can adequately attend to the educational needs of twenty-five 5-6 year olds without any additional resources. Wilful, thank you for sharing your experience and insight. It is good to hear that our instincts about Suwanee are on point. We have a lot to think about...thanks again everyone.

[lastminutemom]

Originally Posted by essentially08

Thank you, Thank you! everyone for your responses, we've found each of them helpful. Lastminutemom, we have found a nice selection of homes within our budget in both of the areas. Although we have noticed that the Johns Creek homes can be a bit more expensive and have higher property taxes. We also feel that the large class sizes in Gwinnett are problematic. I just can't imagine how one teacher can adequately attend to the educational needs of twenty-five 5-6 year olds without any additional resources. Wilful, thank you for sharing your experience and insight. It is good to hear that our instincts about Suwanee are on point. We have a lot to think about...thanks again everyone.

I need you to understand that class sizes in Fulton can get larger and very well might. The state has essentially lifted all class size limits for the foreseeable future.

The state legislature has allowed school systems to delay their budgets until the end of May and so we are just now starting to see the beginning discussions of what systems plan to do. Gwinnett started a bit earlier this year.

Fulton has higher taxes, because taxes are higher. Gwinnett is reluctant to raise taxes so they have less revenue for their schools.

[OhioNative]

Originally Posted by lastminutemom

I need you to understand that class sizes in Fulton can get larger and very well might. The state has essentially lifted all class size limits for the foreseeable future.

The state legislature has allowed school systems to delay their budgets until the end of May and so we are just now starting to see the beginning discussions of what systems plan to do. Gwinnett started a bit earlier this year.

Here is a document with the recommended class sizes for the upcoming school year for Fulton County. Look at the "With Waiver" column, which is the same as the class sizes in Gwinnett. BTW, we have been very unhappy with the administration at Suwanee Elementary over the past couple of years and are pulling our child out, for what it's worth.

http://portal.fultonschools.org/depa...GUIDELINES.pdf

[wilful]

Essentially 08 - Feel free to send me a private message and I can provide contact information for a more lengthy and private discussion if you would like. Welcome to the area!

[capoeira]

Have you considered the Camp Creek Elementary area in the Parkview cluster in Gwinnett? This is a "10" rated school and it is quite diverse. I definitely prefer this area over Johns Creek. Less traffic than Johns Creek and closer to the interesting areas of Dekalb such as City of Decatur and the Emory area.