$8 BILLION to expand Hartsfield-Jackson?! MADNESS! (Atlanta, Columbus: leases, cost of, law)

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Paulding county is closer, but you still run into the issue of less ability to serve the facility with transit. I guess if you ran commuter rail to Dallas, you could build a branch to the airport maybe.

You don't need fixed transit to a second airport. It would not serve the purpose that HJIA does.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

You don't need fixed transit to a second airport. It would not serve the purpose that HJIA does.

True. I imagine that the vast majority of people using Hartsfield go by car anyway.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

True. I imagine that the vast majority of people using Hartsfield go by car anyway.

That would an interesting research project. I'm sure visitors are close to being split 50/50, while more locals drive because the money areas are not directly served by MARTA rail, except Buckhead, Dunwoody, Sandy Springs, and the upper-income intown neighborhoods.
I like MattCW's idea of replacing the small, connector flights with 'higher' speed rail. That would free up a lot of space for larger aircraft.

[emcee squared]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

How do you figure that $8 billion wouldn't be enough to build another airport? Would it build one of Hartsfield's size? Of course not, but a nice 20-30 gate secondary airport shouldn't cost anywhere close to that amount.

Do you have any sources to back up your claim?

I suppose it depends on what type of secondary airport one wants to construct. I don't claim to be an expert on these matters, but airport construction is notoriously expensive. If much of the infrastructure is already in place, mainly adequate runways and taxiways, a 20-30 gate secondary airport can definitely be built for less than $8 billion, you're probably right, but don't expect the cost to be a small amount if all new infrastructure needs building. That is why Dobbins is so popular as a location economically. The people wont stand for it, though.


The ongoing construction/expansion at Hartsfield is likely to cost more than $9 billion. I believe this dollar figure is not counting the new round of expansion plans: Hartsfield project costs soar to $9B - Atlanta Business Chronicle

This Wiki gives fun information on airport projects around the world: List of megaprojects - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I like MattCW's idea of replacing the small, connector flights with 'higher' speed rail. That would free up a lot of space for larger aircraft.

Where would you connect that would have a significant impact on traffic at the airport?

The busiest route out of Atlanta is the route to Orlando with about 1.3 million passengers. If you convinced 100% of those fliers to take the train (a ridiculous assumption), you'd only see about 1.5% of the airport's capacity freed up. How much would a train to Orlando (that would be fast enough to encourage 100% of the people to switch) cost? Even if you add in stops in places like Gainesville FL and Macon, GA, you would see a small increase in that 1.3 million number. (Don't even get me started on the long term operating costs and subsidies required for high speed rail to work in this sort of environment).

I believe for the cost of that one rail line, you could build an entire new airport and add 20-25% capacity to the region. I like this option because it makes fiscal sense.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by emcee squared

I suppose it depends on what type of secondary airport one wants to construct. I don't claim to be an expert on these matters, but airport construction is notoriously expensive. If much of the infrastructure is already in place, mainly adequate runways and taxiways, a 20-30 gate secondary airport can definitely be built for less than $8 billion, you're probably right, but don't expect the cost to be a small amount if all new infrastructure needs building. That is why Dobbins is so popular as a location economically. The people wont stand for it, though.


The ongoing construction/expansion at Hartsfield is likely to cost more than $9 billion. I believe this dollar figure is not counting the new round of expansion plans: Hartsfield project costs soar to $9B - Atlanta Business Chronicle

This Wiki gives fun information on airport projects around the world: List of megaprojects - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Could be worse, it could cost $10.3B at an airport that only serves less than half of HJIA. See JFK redevelopment.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Could be worse, it could cost $10.3B at an airport that only serves less than half of HJIA. See JFK redevelopment.

It certainly could, but that is a high cost area that I don't think is very representative of the amount of investment needed to get a project done in Atlanta. It is really amazing how high some of the infrastructure costs are in the NE.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Where would you connect that would have a significant impact on traffic at the airport?

The busiest route out of Atlanta is the route to Orlando with about 1.3 million passengers. If you convinced 100% of those fliers to take the train (a ridiculous assumption), you'd only see about 1.5% of the airport's capacity freed up. How much would a train to Orlando (that would be fast enough to encourage 100% of the people to switch) cost? Even if you add in stops in places like Gainesville FL and Macon, GA, you would see a small increase in that 1.3 million number. (Don't even get me started on the long term operating costs and subsidies required for high speed rail to work in this sort of environment).

I believe for the cost of that one rail line, you could build an entire new airport and add 20-25% capacity to the region. I like this option because it makes fiscal sense.

And how much of that traffic is pure connecting traffic? I'd imagine quite a bit. But even so, I'm talking about rail capacity for the nearer cities like Columbus, Birmingham, Chattanooga, Augusta, Charlotte, etc. For $8 billion, you could connect all of those cities with frequent enough service that would enable capacity expansion on the longer-haul routes, like to Orlando by no longer needing those slots for the short-haul routes that connect to the longer-haul routes. You'd also be enabling more reliable connections from the intermediate cities to the airport. No one likes driving all the way to Atlanta from...anywhere unless they have no choice (basically everyone right now save the lucky few who can use the Crescent).

[SAAN]

I know it will never happen, but Peachtree Dekalb Airport would be the perfect 2nd airport since it is right across from Chamblee Marta station and only a 35 min train ride for ATL airport. It doesnt have to take large planes either, CRJ's and E170's etc would be perfect and give people second option. If a 737 could go there, im sure Southwest would try to make it a hub.

[flyonpa]

I doubt that putting in High Speed rail to 'nearby' cites would do much to traffic at ATL Airport. Most O/D traffic to cities in the less then 4-5hr driving range, already drive.

It would be a hard sell to get someone flying from Miami to Chattanooga with a connection in Atlanta, to leave the airport to get on a high speed train.

If the trains left from the airport, with frequent service, with 'in-line' / connecting ticketing from the airline it might work. But still a hard sell to get someone who is connecting to do it.