Might Atlanta Tax Parking to Fund Transit? (employment, wages)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by #1MARTAFan

I have an innovative solution: Actually pass the cost on to the transit users.

WHAT!?!?!

Pure madness.

And the drivers.
WHAT!?!?!
Include environmental impact fees, and health car fees because sitting in a car can make people fat.

[#1MARTAFan]

Originally Posted by cqholt

And the drivers.
WHAT!?!?!
Include environmental impact fees, and health car fees because sitting in a car can make people fat.

"But but but what about those guys"

I want free stuff. Tax things I don't like!

What selfish thinking.

[noah]

Well car drivers already pay user type taxes - Gasoline tax, toll roads, car tags. I am all for transit but it makes more sense for a parking tax to cover repairs to roads and sidewalks which are also much needed.

[ATLJR]

Automobile user fees don't come close to paying for automobile infrastructure nationally and while the state of Georgia has to balance its budget based around motor fuel collections, the amount taken in is gradually shrinking while debt service payments on bonds has been increasing, limiting where the funds can be used. Couple this with Georgia's rapidly deteriorating older infrastructure (2013 ReportCard on America's Infrastructure | Georgia Overview) the state is going to have trouble repairing, maintaining, and building roads and bridges as the population continues to grow and older infrastructure repair bills come due.

Georgia's excise tax on gasoline has not increased since the 1970s and Georgia is next to last (thanks Tennessee) in per capita transportation spending, however Georgia has to maintain the 11th most miles of roads in the nation (do the math). Solutions are needed and people need to stop being afraid of taxes, in which the USA has some of the lowest in the world and Georgia has some of the lowest within the USA. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Many people are attracted to Atlanta's sprawling bedroom communities (I am not one of them), but those very same people want to turn a blind eye towards the necessary upkeep their lifestyle requires and ignore the massive subsidies the federal and local governments provide in order to make those communities a reality.

Atlanta fortunately does not have a motor fuel excise tax to draw from to answer its infrastructure and transportation issues,
so a parking tax is a logical solution. I don't see how or why Georgia would step in, considering this would be a tax within the City of Atlanta and for those upset at the idea, good riddance. A small parking tax would hardly go unnoticed by the average person, however all the small fees would add up to a significant amount of revenue for the city to apply towards a variety of issues - sidewalk repair, bike lanes, road repair, future transit, etc. Based on prior proposals, businesses and residential communities of a certain size would be exempt from the taxes (so your mom & pop type store and small communities would not be penalized for providing parking) and, if I had my way, parking only businesses would have to pay a steeper fee, removing the attractiveness of long term surface parking lots.

[jsvh]

Not saying dropping parking minimums will make all parking going away (or that anyone wants that). Nothing of the sort. And yes there are examples of places with no-minimum parking. But it will stop forcing property owners to subsidize drivers unless they want to. The market will work things out and you will see more and more pay lots forcing the drivers to pay for all the huge lots that they take up (or pay for parking lots in the cost of the products you buy at the store).

But parking is only one way we subsidize cars. Yes, we have a gas tax and a few toll roads. But all roads should be tolled to cover their cost. We need to stop subsidizing gas companies ($4 Billion a year) and roads (~$150 Billion a year). All together, road users are only paying about a third of the cost (and only 25% in GA). Compare that 33% road ratio to some transit fare recovery ratios: MARTA - 31%, MTA - 55.5%, Toronto - 86%, Tokyo - 170%, Hong Kong - 186% (Yes, many larger dense cities where cars are not as subsidized have very profitable transit)

Stop subsidizing roads and transit. Watch private transit partnerships boom and people start to move closer to their work and life to save money.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by ATLJR

Automobile user fees don't come close to paying for automobile infrastructure nationally and while the state of Georgia has to balance its budget based around motor fuel collections, the amount taken in is gradually shrinking while debt service payments on bonds has been increasing, limiting where the funds can be used. Couple this with Georgia's rapidly deteriorating older infrastructure (2013 ReportCard on America's Infrastructure | Georgia Overview) the state is going to have trouble repairing, maintaining, and building roads and bridges as the population continues to grow and older infrastructure repair bills come due.

Georgia's excise tax on gasoline has not increased since the 1970s and Georgia is next to last (thanks Tennessee) in per capita transportation spending, however Georgia has to maintain the 11th most miles of roads in the nation (do the math). Solutions are needed and people need to stop being afraid of taxes, in which the USA has some of the lowest in the world and Georgia has some of the lowest within the USA. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Many people are attracted to Atlanta's sprawling bedroom communities (I am not one of them), but those very same people want to turn a blind eye towards the necessary upkeep their lifestyle requires and ignore the massive subsidies the federal and local governments provide in order to make those communities a reality.

Atlanta fortunately does not have a motor fuel excise tax to draw from to answer its infrastructure and transportation issues,
so a parking tax is a logical solution. I don't see how or why Georgia would step in, considering this would be a tax within the City of Atlanta and for those upset at the idea, good riddance. A small parking tax would hardly go unnoticed by the average person, however all the small fees would add up to a significant amount of revenue for the city to apply towards a variety of issues - sidewalk repair, bike lanes, road repair, future transit, etc. Based on prior proposals, businesses and residential communities of a certain size would be exempt from the taxes (so your mom & pop type store and small communities would not be penalized for providing parking) and, if I had my way, parking only businesses would have to pay a steeper fee, removing the attractiveness of long term surface parking lots.

Great post. To me, in simple terms: Suburbanites simply don't care about the condition of the city of Atlanta. They don't live in it so why should they care? That's how I look at it anyway. But they're the same ones who are yelling and screaming about the massive traffic issues that taint the city, specifically on drags like the connector and GA400. Having a more extensive transit system would go a long way in allowing people to use rail to get across the city and maybe eve the metro WITHOUT having to drive. Give people options. We don't all like to drive just like car lovers don't like to take transit.

We will NEVER be a global city taken seriously unless we have a better transit system. Simple as that.

[toll_booth]

Since this is a local matter, it should be decided by the City of Atlanta.

That is, of course, if you believe in local control.

[Jillgineer]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

Since this is a local matter, it should be decided by the City of Atlanta.

That is, of course, if you believe in local control.

Local control is great... when it goes your* way. When it doesn't, suddenly the ethical and moral thing is for the State to be involved. People are funny like that.

* not you personally but people in general

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Not saying dropping parking minimums will make all parking going away (or that anyone wants that). Nothing of the sort. And yes there are examples of places with no-minimum parking. But it will stop forcing property owners to subsidize drivers unless they want to. The market will work things out and you will see more and more pay lots forcing the drivers to pay for all the huge lots that they take up (or pay for parking lots in the cost of the products you buy at the store).

I'd be okay with dropping parking minimums and setting parking maximums. As you suggest, let the market sort things out.

Another idea that might help smaller businesses who can't afford to build their own decks is to create public private partnerships to construct shared parking decks.

Obviously you'd need to impose development controls to keep them from being street-killing concrete behemoths. Otherwise let the market determine what kind of parking is appropriate.

[westau]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Street parking.

sucks

Originally Posted by cqholt

And the drivers.
WHAT!?!?!
Include environmental impact fees, and health car fees because sitting in a car can make people fat.

So can sitting on a bus/train.

Originally Posted by jsvh

Not saying dropping parking minimums will make all parking going away (or that anyone wants that). Nothing of the sort. And yes there are examples of places with no-minimum parking. But it will stop forcing property owners to subsidize drivers unless they want to. The market will work things out and you will see more and more pay lots forcing the drivers to pay for all the huge lots that they take up (or pay for parking lots in the cost of the products you buy at the store).

But parking is only one way we subsidize cars. Yes, we have a gas tax and a few toll roads. But all roads should be tolled to cover their cost. We need to stop subsidizing gas companies ($4 Billion a year) and roads (~$150 Billion a year). All together, road users are only paying about a third of the cost (and only 25% in GA). Compare that 33% road ratio to some transit fare recovery ratios: MARTA - 31%, MTA - 55.5%, Toronto - 86%, Tokyo - 170%, Hong Kong - 186% (Yes, many larger dense cities where cars are not as subsidized have very profitable transit)

Stop subsidizing roads and transit. Watch private transit partnerships boom and people start to move closer to their work and life to save money.

It doesn't look like that link you cite includes car specific taxes like the ad valorem and it makes me wonder if it even counts things outside the gas specific tax like sales tax on gas. It only includes specific tolls and gas taxes. The ad valorem estimates I saw searching Google are somewhere between $600 and $700 million a year which is about 15% of the GDOT budget of 4.2 billion a year.