Income Caps for Hope Scholarship (2014, mortgage, student loans)

[ATL Golfer]

Yay or nay? Seeing the AJC article where Carter reversed course on the subject where he initially wanted caps in place.

I, for one, would not mind if income caps were put into place. Families that are well off should not need the assistance or the same level of assistance. Whereas families that do need the help, the student is more than likely going to leave college with a mountain of debt.

Personally, I think it should be a sliding scale. Assistance is fully utilized for households under $100k, 75% $100-150k, 50% $150-200k, 25% $200-300k and completely phased out for families $300k+...or something along those lines.

Additionally, families with disposable income get to take advantage of the state's 529 plans.

This is an old argument, but just curious what perhaps people think.

[LovelySummer]

I think it's an academic-based scholarship so income of the parents should not matter. If the kid qualifies, the state just needs to give up the money instead of constantly putting up more and more barriers to the Hope scholarship, which is what the state is constantly doing over time.

[Gulch]

Punish the kids because their parents make too much money. Great idea.

[ATL Golfer]

Originally Posted by LovelySummer

I think it's an academic-based scholarship so income of the parents should not matter. If the kid qualifies, the state just needs to give up the money instead of constantly putting up more and more barriers to the Hope scholarship, which is what the state is constantly doing over time.

I hear you. In my opinion you have to ask who is benefiting here. It's not the student in the case where parents can afford college. It is the student when you consider lower income families where the student won't have to take on student loans.

Punish the kids because their parents make too much money. Great idea.

How? Kids are going to college with or without scholarship. I fail to see how they are impacted at all. EDIT ...I suppose their inheritance will be a little lower when the time comes.

[LovelySummer]

Why do you think that just because a student has parents that make more money, the parents are going to take their money and pay for the kid to go to college? Apparently, some people are banking on private school in hoping that their kid can then get a scholarship to college. They would then have to leave the state of Georgia and the possibilities for keeping that talent in-state is then lost. Also, some people with alot of money also have a high-dollar lifestyle and cannot afford to fork over $70K in cold hard cash every year. That's alot of money for anyone, except perhaps the wealthiest 1 percent. Remember, you can finance a lifestyle (house mortgage payment, car, private school tuition) over time. That is alot less in money payment than the $70K upfront that has to be paid on day one of a college year.

If it's an academic scholarship, then I think it ought to stay that way. I am more annoyed with the state tightening restrictions to avoid having to pay out the money for our own youth that are trying to receive advanced education. Georgia needs to value education a bit more and look towards investing in the future.

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

I hear you. In my opinion you have to ask who is benefiting here. It's not the student in the case where parents can afford college. It is the student when you consider lower income families where the student won't have to take on student loans.



How? Kids are going to college with or without scholarship. I fail to see how they are impacted at all.

[ATL Golfer]

Originally Posted by LovelySummer

Why do you think that just because a student has parents that make more money, the parents are going to take their money and pay for the kid to go to college? I think it would be an exception and not the norm for a wealthy family to withhold tuition pmts for their child. Apparently, some people are banking on private school in hoping that their kid can then get a scholarship to college. In state college tuition is cheaper than many private schools. Why would these parents stop paying for education all of the sudden? I hardly think this point is valid in the discussion.They would then have to leave the state of Georgia and the possibilities for keeping that talent in-state is then lost. Anyone with brains is going to follow their job and not be tied down by what state they currently live in. Also, some people with alot of money also have a high-dollar lifestyle and cannot afford to fork over $70K in cold hard cash every year. I'm just going to respond with a "wow" here. That's alot of money for anyone, except perhaps the wealthiest 1 percent. Remember, you can finance a lifestyle (house mortgage payment, car, private school tuition) over time. That is alot less in money payment than the $70K upfront that has to be paid on day one of a college year. Color me confused, but what school are we talking about where in state tuition has reached $70k?

If it's an academic scholarship, then I think it ought to stay that way. I am more annoyed with the state tightening restrictions to avoid having to pay out the money for our own youth that are trying to receive advanced education. Georgia needs to value education a bit more and look towards investing in the future.
Putting a cap or sliding scale would alleviate the pressure on the current system.

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[red92s]

Due to state funding cuts, even in-state public tuition has skyrocketed over the last decade. Putting one kid through UGA or GT or GSU costs a family substantially more in 2014 than it did in 2004. In another couple years, a family of 4 making a combined $150k probably can't reasonably afford to have two kids in college at once without sacrificing their own retirement savings, or incurring heavy debt loads.

The student loan bubble is going to pop in the not-so-distant future. I don't see how driving more and more people to that ecosystem is going to benefit anyone in the long term. HOPE is burning through reserves and making cuts because we refuse to address the real issue: state funding for colleges and universities is down nearly 50%. If we think education is important, lets fund it up front instead of building more toll roads for the benefit of private companies. Let's also do something to break the cycle of convincing every kid they need a college degree to be successful, and getting 10's of thousands of dollars into debt before dropping out.

[ATL Golfer]

Originally Posted by red92s

Due to state funding cuts, even in-state public tuition has skyrocketed over the last decade. Putting one kid through UGA or GT or GSU costs a family substantially more in 2014 than it did in 2004. In another couple years, a family of 4 making a combined $150k probably can't reasonably afford to have two kids in college at once without sacrificing their own retirement savings, or incurring heavy debt loads.

The student loan bubble is going to pop in the not-so-distant future. I don't see how driving more and more people to that ecosystem is going to benefit anyone in the long term.

My argument, and maybe it is flawed, is that students/parents won't have to depend on student loans under a sliding scale.

A family with $150k of income would still receive a significant benefit...50%, maybe more. Maybe they rely on some student loans, but I would imagine at that income level, after scholarship, parents can fill the gap if they want to.

[Dkeating]

Originally Posted by red92s

Due to state funding cuts, even in-state public tuition has skyrocketed over the last decade. Putting one kid through UGA or GT or GSU costs a family substantially more in 2014 than it did in 2004. In another couple years, a family of 4 making a combined $150k probably can't reasonably afford to have two kids in college at once without sacrificing their own retirement savings, or incurring heavy debt loads.

The student loan bubble is going to pop in the not-so-distant future. I don't see how driving more and more people to that ecosystem is going to benefit anyone in the long term. HOPE is burning through reserves and making cuts because we refuse to address the real issue: state funding for colleges and universities is down nearly 50%. If we think education is important, lets fund it up front instead of building more toll roads for the benefit of private companies. Let's also do something to break the cycle of convincing every kid they need a college degree to be successful, and getting 10's of thousands of dollars into debt before dropping out.

Agree that we should not drive people into the college loan ecosystem, but wouldn't giving poorer kids HOPE relieve them if it paid a high enough percentage of costs?

The HOPE scholarship is kind of weird in that it's a voluntary redistribution from the poor to the rich. Politically messing with HOPE is a nonstarter, because the north metro parents (whose kids get the scholarship) feel entitled to the money now, even though they don't pay much for it. I guess the argument is, we put aside our moral compunction against gambling to vote for HOPE only on the condition that it not be means-based.

[LovelySummer]

ATL Golfer, I am going to have to let you figure it out on your own. I said that the idea is that the parent has already paid $200K for K-12. They might not want to keep paying. Who knows. Maybe they want to do something else with their money. Maybe they want to put the next $200K in the retirement fund. Heck, I don't know.

With regard to the $70K, I was thinking private college. However, public is also a large upfront cash only payment. Let's do the math. GTech is $30K upfront. That is cold hard cash, assuming you only have one child. What if you have two (as many people do not have more than four years between their children) and then you are suddenly at $60K. Maybe you do not realize it but for some people, private school K-12 is being made in monthly payments. I found out about this possibility when our child got admitted. I had no idea this was even possible. I thought the entirety had to paid upfront. With college, the entirety (at least for the semester) is due upfront.

Look, maybe you are thinking that a family that makes $150K has somehow a ton of cash to just throw at a college. I think you are not understanding that just because there is a significant income does not mean that there is significant cash to toss at a school in lump sums. If we are talking about the 1% then maybe but then again, the 1%'s children are probably not going to public school.

The bottom line is you asked my opinion and I simply gave it to you. If you disagree, oh well. No big deal.

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

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