Why are casinos "so bad" for Atlanta, but work just fine other places? (Columbus: neighborhood, bankruptcy)

[ATLJR]

My two cents:

I visited a friend in Pittsburgh where they just put up a nice, new casino near Heinz Field and PNC Park. The casino was done very nicely as was the area around it. It's not very large, everything about it is nice, it's patrolled well, everything is safe, there's no seediness. The inside has a bar / sports bar type of atmosphere. There's a few nice restaurants, there's some quick eat type places, there are various bars with plenty of TVs, each bar area with their own unique sort of "look", and many people inside aren't even gambling. There are some people there that fit the "stereotype" - the old lady with the oxygen tank, a few people probably spending what little they have gambling, but for the most part it was just people having fun, spending some money like they would at a movie, ball game, or any other entertainment event. The demographic was surprisingly, at least to me, younger. I enjoyed it. I gambled a bit, March Madness was just beginning so we did a lot of watching of games at the bars, etc. It would be nice to have something like that in Atlanta.

Much like a lot of other things, people want to be the morality police, so they'll spew whatever uninformed opinion they have to justify their stance . Whether it be alcohol, marijuana, or gambling. There's no reason, if done right, that this has to be some blight. Also, they shouldn't build it to be a "tourism" type of place. Don't let it be a gimmick, just let it be what it is, a casino where you can play poker, table games, etc. Have nice restaurants, bars, etc. It'd be nice. Make sure it's policed well.

The worst thing we can do is have it be video machines only. That would not draw the type of business they would want and it would not be a good venue. The second worst thing is to try to turn it into some "draw". This shouldn't be used as a kitschy "tourism" thing.

Anyways, like I said above, if done right it'd be great.

[lorilove]

ATLJR

I work in a Casino - live in Atlanta, travel outside the state each week for work.

One comment about the abundance of little old ladies with oxygen tanks or heavy set gentlemen that can't walk and now get around in a scooter or wheelchair.

You will see this alot in a Casino but not because gambling reduced them to that situation. Casino's are very accessible and inviting establishments for everyone. This is one place many with health issues can come and under one roof not run into any physical limitations. The can go to restaurants, movies, live entertainment and hopefully gamble without feeling restricted.

I personally don't gamble and don't enjoy how dark, smoky and loud Casino's can get but I definitely understand the attraction to others.

[nealrm]

There are no economic benefits from casinos, all they do is take money from one person, skim off some profits and then payout a lesser amount to someone else. The total net result is zero. From a local standpoint the result are generally a net loss, since the profits are being sent out of the area. In other words, the total money lost by the customers exceeds what is paid out in winning and salaries that remain local. The only ones that benefit are the casino owners and the government. In general, casinos tend to be the equivalent of a heavy tax on the uneducated and poor, with the end result being the government befitting on the suffering of others.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by nealrm

There are no economic benefits from casinos, all they do is take money from one person, skim off some profits and then payout a lesser amount to someone else. The total net result is zero. From a local standpoint the result are generally a net loss, since the profits are being sent out of the area. In other words, the total money lost by the customers exceeds what is paid out in winning and salaries that remain local. The only ones that benefit are the casino owners and the government. In general, casinos tend to be the equivalent of a heavy tax on the uneducated and poor, with the end result being the government befitting on the suffering of others.

To me, it seems just like any other form of entertainment that folks pay for. I'm not sure I understand why spending a hundred bucks gambling is any worse than spending a hundred bucks to go to a professional sporting event. They are both forms of paid entertainment.

[ATLJR]

Originally Posted by nealrm

There are no economic benefits from casinos, all they do is take money from one person, skim off some profits and then payout a lesser amount to someone else. The total net result is zero. From a local standpoint the result are generally a net loss, since the profits are being sent out of the area. In other words, the total money lost by the customers exceeds what is paid out in winning and salaries that remain local. The only ones that benefit are the casino owners and the government. In general, casinos tend to be the equivalent of a heavy tax on the uneducated and poor, with the end result being the government befitting on the suffering of others.

This is the moral bull**** I was talking about. Thanks for writing this.

What are the economic benefits from, say, a movie theater? Many of the large movie theaters are not locally own, nor do they pay high wages, they simply take money from one person, who sits in a seat for a few hours, then leaves.

Your argument seems to be that, while a casino will generate jobs, provide an increase in governmental tax revenue, and provide entertainment to others, that because some people win while gambling and other people lose while gambling, it's has no economic benefit. Is that the gist of your argument?

[nealrm]

Originally Posted by ATLJR

This is the moral bull**** I was talking about. Thanks for writing this.

What are the economic benefits from, say, a movie theater? Many of the large movie theaters are not locally own, nor do they pay high wages, they simply take money from one person, who sits in a seat for a few hours, then leaves.

Your argument seems to be that, while a casino will generate jobs, provide an increase in governmental tax revenue, and provide entertainment to others, that because some people win while gambling and other people lose while gambling, it's has no economic benefit. Is that the gist of your argument?

The economic benefits from a theater and a casino are the same - nothing. In fact, that holds for many businesses that don't create a product that can be resold. There is nothing wrong with that, in many cases those services are needed to make the economy run. It's just that those services don't create wealth. That is different than business that make a product.

For example:

An artist makes a wood carving. Wood + supplies + time = $100. He sells it for $200. The total economy is now $100 greater ($200 value of the work - $100 actual cost).

A casino brings pays out $100 in winning, $25 in salaries, $65 in taxes and $10 profit for the owner from bets totaling $200. The net result in economic growth is $100+$25+$65+$10-$200=$0.

There are several problems with casinos, many related to them being a huge source of taxes for the government. The first is that it tend to corrupt the local political structure. That extra revenue tends to go more towards projects that favor the casino. They also tend to get addicted to that revenue stream. In addition, when looked at from a taxing standpoint, it is highly regressive. Lower income groups pay a proportionally greater amount of the tax. There are also issues with increasing in gambling addiction and crime.

[lorilove]

I am not sure where you get your math that a casino is paying 65% of their winning in taxes? A casino is paying the same corporate tax rate as any other service related business.

The vast majority of a casino's revenue and profit comes from Slot machines so let's use that as an example. On average a Casino is holding about 8% on each bet. Higher for the fancier Las Vegas strip casino and lower for the not so nice casino.

2 players each bet $100 - the casino is going to take $16 in gross profit. Player 1 wins nothing and Player 2 wins $184.

But that $16 is gross profit - the casino has salaries to pay, overhead costs of the building, marketing costs and in may cases there are other venue's in casino that are loss leaders. Taxes are only paid on the net profit which is significantly less. Casino's are actually a very low margin business and rely on volume to make their money.

Where the government can win big is if the Casino's attrack visitors from outside the area that stay in the hotels and use the other venue's and pay the sales taxes on those transactions. From a gov't standpoint, if all you do is attract local residents then you are just moving money from one business establishment to another and gaining nothing.

The key is not approve too many Casino's in the area where the competition has none of them profitable. You would definitley want the majority of them to be located near your other convention type of business.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

To me, it seems just like any other form of entertainment that folks pay for. I'm not sure I understand why spending a hundred bucks gambling is any worse than spending a hundred bucks to go to a professional sporting event. They are both forms of paid entertainment.

Sort of makes a case for prostitution. Atlanta could use a "red light district". Or even sell Marijuana. Become the Amsterdam of America.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Sort of makes a case for prostitution.

It's different from prostitution in that many prostitutes are pulled in when they are very young, many times by force, and they are often horribly abused and unable to get out.

Gamblers always start voluntarily and they can always quit (assuming they muster the willpower to do so).

That being said, I'm fine with a casino. It's a free country and we don't need people running around trying to legislate their morality.

[kasuga888]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It's different from prostitution in that many prostitutes are pulled in when they are very young, many times by force, and they are often horribly abused and unable to get out.

Gamblers always start voluntarily and they can always quit (assuming they muster the willpower to do so).

That being said, I'm fine with a casino. It's a free country and we don't need people running around trying to legislate their morality.

If prostitution was legal, that type of abuse will be less likely. Nice Ladies looking for some extra to pay the LV bag of the month can exchange sex for some $ Might be better deal than one night stands after a couple free shots