Atlanta #1 Metro area for sprawl (tax, zoning, cost of)

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by eastmemphisguy

Dallas and Houston are not fair comparisons. The mountains around Atlanta spread the burbs out even more thinly.

"Around"? The mountains are far to the north of Atlanta. You can't see much of any hills in Atlanta.

[AnsleyPark]

Speaking of car dependent. Took MARTA from airport to doraville last night. The drunk man got in the train and talked loudly and sang the entire trip. Some folks cussed at him. Very pleasant.

I will take my car any day.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by eastmemphisguy

There's really no perfect solution, short of telling every family to put mom back in the kitchen and off the highways, and nobody's interested in doing that.

I don't think moms getting out of the kitchen is the cause of traffic congestion.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Speaking of car dependent. Took MARTA from airport to doraville last night. The drunk man got in the train and talked loudly and sang the entire trip. Some folks cussed at him. Very pleasant.

I will take my car any day.

No one tied you down to one seat and kept you from changing cars at the next station. No one prevented you from hitting the "Talk to Operator" button. No one kept you from alerting the MARTA police. If it bothered you that much, you could have done something about it.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by MattCW

No one tied you down to one seat and kept you from changing cars at the next station. No one prevented you from hitting the "Talk to Operator" button. No one kept you from alerting the MARTA police. If it bothered you that much, you could have done something about it.

I am a big transit proponent, and the behavior like that on the trains is unacceptable. It has gotten better with many of the new policies have been put in place on MARTA, but it is still happening. This sort of stuff should not be happening at all and I expect MARTA to continue to improve the experience. It is not the riders responsibility to deal with it beyond possibly notifying the authorities on a rare occasion.

If we can get the subsidies out of highways, transit can return to being a profitable private industry like it is in other places and in the past. Competitive private companies are very good at maintaining a good customer experience.

[PJA]

Originally Posted by jsvh

The opposite is true. Atlanta metro is proof that freeways and sprawl just creates more traffic and destroys the city center. Atlanta has spent the last half-century bulldozing neighborhoods and widening roads to the suburbs. What has it caused? A drain of people and businesses from the city and the desolation of a once vibrate city center.

If you want to live in the suburbs and drive 60 miles into the city to work everyday, good for you. But you should be paying for that commute, not those of us that live close in. Those of us in the city are done paying our taxes to fund bulldozing our homes to widen streets for you. The city should focus on making streets serve the people that live there. If you expect to travel across the metro at more than 35 mph you should be paying for a transit fare or for a toll road.

You assume that most people who live in the city don't drive which is far from true. The inner city folks drive just like those in the suburbs. The amount who use public transportation is a small minority. And for those that do use public transportation, I guess the 2.50 that a person pays to ride the Marta fully pay for their commute....I doubt that very seriously.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by MattCW

No one tied you down to one seat and kept you from changing cars at the next station. No one prevented you from hitting the "Talk to Operator" button. No one kept you from alerting the MARTA police. If it bothered you that much, you could have done something about it.

I intend to do something about it - not ride the train any more. Transit = my car. Others may ride the train with the nut jobs if they find it to be the transportation panacea.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by PJA

You assume that most people who live in the city don't drive which is far from true. The inner city folks drive just like those in the suburbs.

I currently drive my car every day. That doesn't mean that I want to live on a 8 lane highway. Nor does it change the reality that more and larger roads only brings more traffic, not solves it.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by PJA

You assume that most people who live in the city don't drive which is far from true. The inner city folks drive just like those in the suburbs. The amount who use public transportation is a small minority. And for those that do use public transportation, I guess the 2.50 that a person pays to ride the Marta fully pay for their commute....I doubt that very seriously.

MARTA's farebox recovery ratio is 32% which is about the same as that both tolls and gas taxes pay for roads in GA ( Gasoline Taxes and User Fees Pay for Only Half of State & Local Road Spending | Tax Foundation ). Back before the heavy highway subsidies Atlanta had dozens of private streetcar lines (100%+ farebox recovery) for $0.10 (~$1.50 today) fare. And I assure you the private operators did not tolerate the disorderly passengers.

MARTA's customer service will continue to improve with better management and as it privatizes more parts as most other transit companies around the world have done. But regardless you should have the option to drive, just drivers should be paying for it, not property & income taxes. (And riders should be paying for transit).

[PJA]

Originally Posted by jsvh

MARTA's farebox recovery ratio is 32% which is about the same as that both tolls and gas taxes pay for roads in GA ( Gasoline Taxes and User Fees Pay for Only Half of State & Local Road Spending | Tax Foundation ). Back before the heavy highway subsidies Atlanta had dozens of private streetcar lines (100%+ farebox recovery) for $0.10 (~$1.50 today) fare. And I assure you the private operators did not tolerate the disorderly passengers.

MARTA's customer service will continue to improve with better management and as it privatizes more parts as most other transit companies around the world have done. But regardless you should have the option to drive, just drivers should be paying for it, not property & income taxes. (And riders should be paying for transit).

But since the government insists on continuing to tax us, I would rather most of those taxes go to where it will benefit the most...and that is road infrastructure. However public transportation should continue to be funded as well for those who cant afford cars and for those who just want that option. In an ideal world both would be privatized.....but we know the government isn't going to let that happen.