Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
LOL. You have no idea. I come from public schools and the middle class. However, I also come from Il where your parents have to put money on your education in addition to the property taxes. You see, it's not about classicism at all. I have no basis for being classist. It is about seeing the dire situation of students because I have been looking at it from the inside out. I see the kids whose parents are prostitutes. I see the disparities between the kids in East Cobb and the kids in the Atlanta inner city. Contrary to you, I am not sitting down in Peachtree City or Coweta county somewhere with the best public schools in the state. On the contrary, my husbands spends our own family money to buy supplies and bookbags and pays for field trips for kids every single year. He sees the worst of the worst. Every year he gets at least 2 kids who cannot read who have been passed to him, who go absent for long periods of time, etc. - he sees so many issues that he has to pick and choose which to send to the part-time counselor bc the school cannot afford a full-time counselor and what little time the counselor is there at the school, he/she has to see the most dire situations and the less dire situation go unaddressed. Then there are those little issues like having a crumbing school that is sweltering in the summer and freezing in the winter bc the AC or the heat does not work properly, etc. etc. The schools with no computers for the kids, etc. Infusing money would *help* these kids.
I think *you* might be the one who is seeing this from a classist point of view. If my point of view was Peachtree City and Newnan with all the lovely, top schools and golf carts, I might not understand the dire need for more money for the system either.... How is raising taxes in Peachtree City going to help kids in the inner city? It won't. My point exactly. Your suggestion to raise taxes has no effect on the real problem. You see, Peachtree City and Newnan are fine and dandy.
I think your vision might be clouded by all those golf courses.... Inner city kids need help. Immediately.
Actually, the city of Atlanta school systems spends substantially more per pupil than Fulton, Cobb or Gwinnett.
Latest numbers (2010)
City of Atlanta $15,043
Fulton $9,824
Cobb $9,103
Gwinnett $9,278
How much more money do you think it would/should take to equalize education? I'm of the opinion something more than finances is the issue here. I'd blame administration bloat.
I have been in schools where nearly every student is receiving free/reduced lunch, so there are MANY parents who can't afford $100. If they can't afford $1.50 for lunch then they surely can't afford a registration fee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark
I believe it is a matter of choice most of the time.
Free / reduced lunch has very little to do with true poverty. It's the largest entitlement program in the nation and a huge scam, especially considering that it's the ONLY measure by which the federal government determines whether schools are "poor" or not.
Here's how it works: Applications for free / reduced lunch are provided by local schools and sent home for parents to complete. They are returned to the school administration with NO documentation required. It's merely a signed statement. The applications are also kept highly confidential, under the theory that the "privacy" of the family should be protected. At the county level, the food service administration is required by FEDERAL LAW to verify just 3 percent of all applications. All the rest are automatically approved and processed. Therefore, anybody who applies for free / reduced lunch has a 97 percent chance of getting approval.
Schools with high free / reduced lunch rates almost always have very high minority enrollments. There are numerous examples of schools with high minority enrollments in wealthy neighborhoods, yet very high free / reduced lunch rates. It's simply a situation where many families know they'll get the benefit, and they apply. And they get it.
The solution would be to do away with the entitlement and make school lunches free for all students, regardless of income. But that would do away with the ONE method that the feds have to label schools poor or not -- and by which local school districts collect a LOT of federal money.
And you think forcing their parents to pay more money will fix that?
As others have already pointed out, APS already spends more per student than any of the surrounding districts. A lack of money isn't the problem with the inner city school system.
And you think forcing their parents to pay more money will fix that?
As others have already pointed out, APS already spends more per student than any of the surrounding districts. A lack of money isn't the problem with the inner city school system.
From what I can tell, it's generally - not always - a lack of parental involvement.
Look at "Persons below poverty level". For a family of three, that means they earn less than $18,284 per year. Ask those people if they can afford an extra $100 a year to send their child to primary or secondary school. That's at least half a percent of their total annual income.
Just wanted to mention, my mom, when I was filling out my FAFSA as a senior in high school, was newly divorced and only made $16000 a year. That year she had to pay my graduation fees, which included all of the "fees" I had accumulated from K-12 via lost books or damaged school stuff, they keep up with that stuff in Ohio lol. And it was about $700 and my mom paid it . FWIW, she probably had to ask my grandmother for the money. But she would have paid it regardless to see me graduate and they did not give waivers at my high school for any graduation fees or delinquency fees for lost/damaged books.
And just wanted to mention, I understand where LovelySummer is coming from. It is true that many low-income parents spend exorbitant amounts of money on clothes for their kids and gaming systems and other stuff that isn't important and I can understand the idea of making education more important by requiring all families to pay a registration fee. I also don't think that the lack of wanting to pay such a fee is something that would be more prevalent in the south. No one wants to pay more fees! No matter where they live IMO especially, since as stated, it is against the law for kids not to go to school. It just doesn't make sense to require parents to pay for something when if they don't send the kids they can go to jail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy
Free / reduced lunch has very little to do with true poverty. It's the largest entitlement program in the nation and a huge scam, especially considering that it's the ONLY measure by which the federal government determines whether schools are "poor" or not.
Here's how it works: Applications for free / reduced lunch are provided by local schools and sent home for parents to complete. They are returned to the school administration with NO documentation required. It's merely a signed statement. The applications are also kept highly confidential, under the theory that the "privacy" of the family should be protected. At the county level, the food service administration is required by FEDERAL LAW to verify just 3 percent of all applications. All the rest are automatically approved and processed. Therefore, anybody who applies for free / reduced lunch has a 97 percent chance of getting approval.
Schools with high free / reduced lunch rates almost always have very high minority enrollments. There are numerous examples of schools with high minority enrollments in wealthy neighborhoods, yet very high free / reduced lunch rates. It's simply a situation where many families know they'll get the benefit, and they apply. And they get it.
The solution would be to do away with the entitlement and make school lunches free for all students, regardless of income. But that would do away with the ONE method that the feds have to label schools poor or not -- and by which local school districts collect a LOT of federal money.
Also wanted to agree with above in regards to free/reduced lunch. I forgot to fill out the form last year for my son and for some reason he ended up getting free breakfast and lunch all year because they said all people in my neighborhood were "qualified." I wasn't going to pass up free lunch lol. We make over $80K per year in our family. This year young man is back to taking PBJ though as we didn't get the automatic freebie this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billl
And you think forcing their parents to pay more money will fix that?
As others have already pointed out, APS already spends more per student than any of the surrounding districts. A lack of money isn't the problem with the inner city school system.
I agree with this as well but I do feel that a lack of services is what is at hand in many traditional public schools and I fell that the money spent in APS could be better spent on providing additional counseling services, tutoring services (from qualified tutors) and extending the school day versus whatever it is they are doing right now. Like it or not, inner city kids do lack support at home and many may not feel it is the school's job to pick up the pieces, but if as a state we want to get better educationally, then providing additional services and increasing the school day in those schools would be good solutions and they do cost money.
I agree that the admins should leave. Mostly bc I'm not convinced they know what they are doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie
Actually, the city of Atlanta school systems spends substantially more per pupil than Fulton, Cobb or Gwinnett.
Latest numbers (2010)
City of Atlanta $15,043
Fulton $9,824
Cobb $9,103
Gwinnett $9,278
How much more money do you think it would/should take to equalize education? I'm of the opinion something more than finances is the issue here. I'd blame administration bloat.
Yes, I do. Yes, I think requiring parents to begin to take more of a sense of ownership (money talks and people tend to remember what they expressly spend money on) will cause the parents to place more value on education and in turn require more of the students. That's for the parents that are not currently placing enough value on education.
For those that are, the money will simply bring more to the pot.
I think it is difficult to compare the money required per pupil for a school district that is exclusively inner city with the money per pupil for a suburban school district. The issues with which the students generally deal are completely different. Dealing with issues takes money. I don't expect it to take as much to educate children living in Cobb or Gwinnett as those living in the inner city of Atlanta. From what I am told, there is alot more special education and other issues going on in the inner city than in Cobb. I could be wrong but that is what I am told. It tends to make sense.
Yes, I do think inner city kids can benefit from more money. I say this because I know firsthand that my husband's school has switched to Common Core but they do not even have the proper resources (e.g., the proper set of textbooks to really facilitate learning all the standards, etc.) for Common Core. This is just one example. Yes, this is really happening.
I never said a lack of money was the ONLY problem. However, it is definitely a problem. The point of this thread was to learn whether people would be amenable to at least partially addressing some of the financial issues with a registration fee. For example, in my husband's school alone, 50K might buy textbooks that teach all the standards for Common Core. This is just one example. It might also buy a few ink cartridges so the children can see color printed images on the walls instead of black and white, for example. These things really matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billl
And you think forcing their parents to pay more money will fix that?
As others have already pointed out, APS already spends more per student than any of the surrounding districts. A lack of money isn't the problem with the inner city school system.
I don't have the time to find the stats to back it up at the moment, but I worked hands-on with children in Gwinnett County for 13 years and can tell you with certainty that there is a lot of poverty there. A LOT. Yes, there are pockets of upper middle class in Cobb and Gwinnett, but there is also exponential growth in both counties and poverty is quickly on the rise. Despite the gigantic size of the schools in Gwinnett, they seem to do something right. What that "something" is, I cannot identify with certainty. APS seems to be stuck in a rut. The different districts in the Metro Atlanta area need to hold some kind of summit and exchange ideas. The lack of communication between them during "Snowmageddon" this year (regarding whether/when to close school) strikes me as a prime example of too many kings and too many fiefdoms. It's like all the intelligence agencies in the U.S. and their petty rivalries pre-9/11. It's not a competition; they need to talk to each other.
I agree completely. This is another reason that I started a post asking why Ga never evaluated some of the more successful school districts/states in our country. It seems that there also could have been/still could be much to be learned from those who are getting it right in some ways. Why try to re-invent the wheel (whether on a statewide basis or a county-wide basis) if there is a model that, at least, in part, may work. Isn't this what CEOs do? I don't think they come up with their plans from whole cloth. I think they learn from other successes and failures and go from there with their own vision/plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMMom
The different districts in the Metro Atlanta area need to hold some kind of summit and exchange ideas. The lack of communication between them during "Snowmageddon" this year (regarding whether/when to close school) strikes me as a prime example of too many kings and too many fiefdoms. It's like all the intelligence agencies in the U.S. and their petty rivalries pre-9/11. It's not a competition; they need to talk to each other.
I have been in schools where nearly every student is receiving free/reduced lunch, so there are MANY parents who can't afford $100. If they can't afford $1.50 for lunch then they surely can't afford a registration fee.
How many people should really be on free lunch in most schools?
I wonder how many students on free lunch live in single parent homes where the other parent(father) is not paying child support?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
