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Yes, I do. Yes, I think requiring parents to begin to take more of a sense of ownership (money talks and people tend to remember what they expressly spend money on) will cause the parents to place more value on education and in turn require more of the students. That's for the parents that are not currently placing enough value on education.
For those that are, the money will simply bring more to the pot.
I think it is difficult to compare the money required per pupil for a school district that is exclusively inner city with the money per pupil for a suburban school district. The issues with which the students generally deal are completely different. Dealing with issues takes money. I don't expect it to take as much to educate children living in Cobb or Gwinnett as those living in the inner city of Atlanta. From what I am told, there is alot more special education and other issues going on in the inner city than in Cobb. I could be wrong but that is what I am told. It tends to make sense.
Yes, I do think inner city kids can benefit from more money. I say this because I know firsthand that my husband's school has switched to Common Core but they do not even have the proper resources (e.g., the proper set of textbooks to really facilitate learning all the standards, etc.) for Common Core. This is just one example. Yes, this is really happening.
I never said a lack of money was the ONLY problem. However, it is definitely a problem. The point of this thread was to learn whether people would be amenable to at least partially addressing some of the financial issues with a registration fee. For example, in my husband's school alone, 50K might buy textbooks that teach all the standards for Common Core. This is just one example. It might also buy a few ink cartridges so the children can see color printed images on the walls instead of black and white, for example. These things really matter.
In regards to the bold, I honestly don't think that many low income, uncaring/uninvolved parents would all the sudden take an interest in their child's education just because they paid the school $100 or even $200.
As stated, many of those parents spend exorbitant amounts of money on shoes and gaming systems and specific brands of clothing for the kids. None of those things really matter to them either except they want to look like they have some money.
In regards to the textbook situation at your husband's school, that is tragic that the school didn't spend the money on books. I would put the onus of that on the principal and other administrators within the APS district. My kid goes to an APS charter school and they have textbooks that match Common Core curriculum and have had them since they switched to it a couple years ago.
I also wanted to agree with the other poster in that there are poverty stricken children in the suburban districts, especially Cobb and Gwinnet. I am not sure in regards to special education in the suburban counties but I do feel that APS spends a lot on special educational services for youth in the district. That said, I also feel they have too much bloat and that they are poorly managed. I don't forsee that changing with the new superintendent. She is not very impressive IMO.
One of the things that people are saying is that those that voted for charter schools are taking money away from the other public school's budgets and that the other, non-charter public schools need the money more bc charter schools don't have to deal with special ed, etc. if they do not want to do so. I voted for the charter school amendment, hubbie voted against it for this reason and now I see his point. I do see that the charter schools can cherry pick students, parents, etc. to formulate a semi-private school environment with public funds while the "leftover" kids and parents remain in the regular public schools. So all the problems that need money for handling get left in the regular publics but the regular publics have less money bc they have to now share with the charters. So, I'm not surprised that your son's charter school has resources that are not available at the regular public school. Apparently, my husband's school is not the only one in APS with this problem. He has friends at a number of regular publics in APS and this is an ongoing problem.
That said, I voted for charters partly bc I had given up on the administrators for public school. You see, I've been seeing the inside of the craziness for years now and it is the main reason why I am sending our son private. There are so many nonsense decisions that are made that make absolutely no business sense. The school district is literally, in my opinion, being run no different than any other government body that just has a bunch of sloths chugging away taking up space and time, making decisions that don't actually help the kids learn. I said before and I'll say again that I think that the public school system should be overhauled and run by business people. These people have no clue. Yes, that is part of the problem.
Why aren't you impressed with the new superintendent? I don't know much about her except what I've read. One thing that I like is that she is fresh and may not have to bend to the whims of the typical Atlanta ingrained bureacrats. I know for a fact that she is also bringing a number of principals with her.... She is getting rid of some of the APS principals. I do like this type of gusto. Get rid of the crap people sitting in positions not doing their jobs effectively. Yes, she is bringing her own people with her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
I also wanted to agree with the other poster in that there are poverty stricken children in the suburban districts, especially Cobb and Gwinnet. I am not sure in regards to special education in the suburban counties but I do feel that APS spends a lot on special educational services for youth in the district. That said, I also feel they have too much bloat and that they are poorly managed. I don't forsee that changing with the new superintendent. She is not very impressive IMO.
Last edited by LovelySummer; 04-30-2014 at 09:06 AM..
One of the things that people are saying is that those that voted for charter schools are taking money away from the other public school's budgets and that the other, non-charter public schools need the money more bc charter schools don't have to deal with special ed, etc. if they do not want to do so. I voted for the charter school amendment, hubbie voted against it for this reason and now I see his point. I do see that the charter schools can cherry pick students, parents, etc. to formulate a semi-private school environment with public funds while the "leftover" kids and parents remain in the regular public schools. So all the problems that need money for handling get left in the regular publics but the regular publics have less money bc they have to now share with the charters. So, I'm not surprised that your son's charter school has resources that are not available at the regular public school. Apparently, my husband's school is not the only one in APS with this problem. He has friends at a number of regular publics in APS and this is an ongoing problem.
That said, I voted for charters partly bc I had given up on the administrators for public school. You see, I've been seeing the inside of the craziness for years now and it is the main reason why I am sending our son private. There are so many nonsense decisions that are made that make absolutely no business sense. The school district is literally, in my opinion, being run no different than any other government body that just has a bunch of sloths chugging away taking up space and time, making decisions that don't actually help the kids learn. I said before and I'll say again that I think that the public school system should be overhauled and run by business people. These people have no clue. Yes, that is part of the problem.
Why aren't you impressed with the new superintendent? I don't know much about her except what I've read. One thing that I like is that she is fresh and may not have to bend to the whims of the typical Atlanta ingrained bureacrats. I know for a fact that she is also bringing a number of principals with her.... She is getting rid of some of the APS principals. I do like this type of gusto. Get rid of the crap people sitting in positions not doing their jobs effectively. Yes, she is bringing her own people with her.
I don't feel she has a good track record (she has been superintendent in both Austin, TX and St. Paul, MN) especially in regards to openness, which I think is something that is sorely needed here since we are only a few years out from the cheating scandal. I don't think she has exhibited being a "hands on" superintendent and I feel APS is in need of a good reformer and not more of the same old same old.
APS needs restructuring from the top down IMO and I just don't see her doing it and I don't see her as a strong leader who can create a clear path to reforming APS.
ETA: Wanted to also mention that charter schools here in GA, including APS get less money than traditional schools get, which is why, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, we are asked to contribute via "giving campaigns" every year for our charter school. Also, I understand people's views of charters taking away money from traditional schools, but if those schools continuously provide a sub-par education to children, as a mother, I am not going to support us continuing to send our kids there and instead support sending 2/3rds of the money to a charter, where the kid will get a better education is more effective and beneficial for the individual and communities who have large amounts of kids going to neighborhood charter schools.
I completely understand about not sending your kids to regular publics. Heck, you see my solution...for the same reasons. What I'm saying is that charters get 75% of the money but do not have 75% of the problems for example, 75% of the students or anywhere near the ratio. For example, in charters, you see a ratio of 1: 1:5 or 1:10, in regular publics, you see a ratio of 1:27 or 1:30. When teachers have 30 kids they cannot do half of what they can do with 10 or 7, as we see in the charters. The ratio is no where near 75% of the ratio of regular publics. The size of the charters is no where near 75% of the size of the publics. The number of special ed students, students with autism, etc. is probably nowhere near 75% of what you see in the publics.
And you still need to give money to make it all come together - even with a small student body, parents that care enough to opt-in to the charter system and go through all of the hurdles to enrollment (wait list, application, etc.). You *still* need to give extra money. The solution that I suggested re registration fees is very much like the campaign that you guys do. In IL, they just ask for the money upfront and don't call it a campaign. The same reasons your charter school asks you for money is the same reason I raised this issue of registration fees for regular publics. It's really no different. They all need to be infused with more money.
Hmm. I'm going to have to look into this super a bit more. I was hopeful she'd be a little different! It's so disappointing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
I don't feel she has a good track record (she has been superintendent in both Austin, TX and St. Paul, MN) especially in regards to openness, which I think is something that is sorely needed here since we are only a few years out from the cheating scandal. I don't think she has exhibited being a "hands on" superintendent and I feel APS is in need of a good reformer and not more of the same old same old.
APS needs restructuring from the top down IMO and I just don't see her doing it and I don't see her as a strong leader who can create a clear path to reforming APS.
ETA: Wanted to also mention that charter schools here in GA, including APS get less money than traditional schools get, which is why, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, we are asked to contribute via "giving campaigns" every year for our charter school. Also, I understand people's views of charters taking away money from traditional schools, but if those schools continuously provide a sub-par education to children, as a mother, I am not going to support us continuing to send our kids there and instead support sending 2/3rds of the money to a charter, where the kid will get a better education is more effective and beneficial for the individual and communities who have large amounts of kids going to neighborhood charter schools.
I was also thinking a bit and I was going to say, perhaps we cannot simply say the principal is not spending the money in the right way for the regular public school that does not have the textbooks. For one, the public school does not ask parents for extra donations, as does charters, so, for that reason alone, the principal at the charter probably has more $$ to work with (for books, etc.) than the principal at the regular public school. I disagree with not asking for money in the regular public school (as you can well see ) but that's the way they do things in regular publics.
Then, on top of having campaigns to raise additional money at charters, charters seem to get a disproportionate amount of funding relative to their ability to cherry pick the best students, best parents, decide whether they want to take children who need special ed services, etc.
Anyway, random thoughts. It may not be that the principals are misallocating money in some instances I think (now upon further reflection). There's a huge difference between buying books for 150 kids and buying books for 600-800. The money just may not be there. Plain and simple. Especially on top of all of the other expenses that regular publics encounter.
There was one other point that I wanted to make with regard to comparing inner city schools with schools outside of the inner city. I think that what happens in many cases is that parents who make more money subsidize the educational system by hiring tutors for their kids, sending them to Kumon if they need more help, taking a pay cut and having a parent stay home with the children, etc. All of these things go into the cost to educate a child but these costs are not seen as part of the school's bottom line because it is parental investment. So then it looks like APS is investing the most in a kid when, in fact, if there is a substantial portion of APS kids in poverty, that is all they are getting. They are not getting the additional investment of time with mom and dad who can actually help with homework sometimes (barring this new math craziness, which no one seems to understand lol), Kumon, private tutor. This is part of the cost of the child's education but you don't see it in the school's bottom line. All of this to say that the sum total of what is being provided by APS may not be suitable given the state of the student body, lack of extra $$ being infused by parents in the home environment bc many kids are impoverished and lack of extra campaign money.
Just random thoughts. Money is not the whole problem but it is a problem.
I only know about our particular school, but I don't see the "cherry picking" thing that people like to say about charters schools. There really is no hurdles to jump through either other than filling out a generic form. It is the same application that people fill out when they transfer their kid to a new school or when their kid starts kindergarten. It is not excessive. Wait lists also don't require anything of the parent that is something that is handled within the school. My son is in 6th grade now and he started at his school in 3rd grade. That year and every year, they get a lot of kids who have behavioral issues or who are below expectations (the neighborhood they are in has a preference for admission so they get a majority of new students as neighborhood kids). I remember in 3rd grade one of my son's friends moved out of the district so he was replaced by a boy who could not read in 3rd grade at all. He only knew letters but could not read and he had a lot of behavioral issues that were probably related to him not being able to read. By the end of the school year, that boy could read! He was made to go to mandatory tutoring until 5 and 6pm and was referred to the special education team and got assistance with them and now you would never believe he is the same kid as a 6th grader. So I think the traditional schools like to just p_ssy-foot around the issue. They know when these kids have problems and they know steps that could be taken to help them, those steps are just not done on a consistent basis. Also the expectations of many children in low performing schools is just not up to par to other higher achieving traditional schools and charter schools. I have a friend with a child at Drew and prior to coming to Drew he was in a suburban district and got mostly Cs. At Drew Cs are not acceptable and her child was referred to tutoring and even Saturday school. He gets all As now and is doing very well. They expected more of him at Drew (he was also referred to sport programs and STEM clubs at the school). There is no reason why they should not have expected the same at his old school and provided tutoring.
In regards to tutoring, I agree people with more money can provide tutoring to their children. Though my son's school provides tutoring via an afterschool program, because I have the money, I have sent him to tutoring for writing, which is something that he consistently needs help in (he has a writing LD) so that he can improve in that area. Drew and KIPP and other high performing charters provide longer hours and extensive tutoring to kids. There is no reason why traditional schools cannot do the same thing (this is something I feel APS should put in a reform plan). Traditional schools can also expel problematic students, they just don't do it when they should (this is another topic I think should be in an APS reform plan). Most uninvolved parents don't want their kids home everyday with them anyway. Sad to say it but it is true. If the kid was expelled, the parent would do whatever they could, especially for a younger child, to get the child back in school.
For books, I do feel it is up to the individual administrators. My son previously went to a school in a low income neighborhood with over 500 kids (more kids go there now since other schools closed in the area). They had new books every 2 years and the kids I know who still go there have textbooks that match with Common Core.
They just are not spending money on the right things. They need to increase the school day (and pay teachers for it). Provide quality tutoring programs and stiffen disciplinary policy and stick to the policy (they make too many concessions IMO and provide too many chances). Doing that will improve inner city schools along with continuing to provide adequate special services to kids who need it.
I totally agree with you. Public schools need to kick it up a notch or two. There is so much tomfoolery in decisionmaking in my opinion, and the kids they put up with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
I only know about our particular school, but I don't see the "cherry picking" thing that people like to say about charters schools. There really is no hurdles to jump through either other than filling out a generic form. It is the same application that people fill out when they transfer their kid to a new school or when their kid starts kindergarten. It is not excessive. Wait lists also don't require anything of the parent that is something that is handled within the school. My son is in 6th grade now and he started at his school in 3rd grade. That year and every year, they get a lot of kids who have behavioral issues or who are below expectations (the neighborhood they are in has a preference for admission so they get a majority of new students as neighborhood kids). I remember in 3rd grade one of my son's friends moved out of the district so he was replaced by a boy who could not read in 3rd grade at all. He only knew letters but could not read and he had a lot of behavioral issues that were probably related to him not being able to read. By the end of the school year, that boy could read! He was made to go to mandatory tutoring until 5 and 6pm and was referred to the special education team and got assistance with them and now you would never believe he is the same kid as a 6th grader. So I think the traditional schools like to just p_ssy-foot around the issue. They know when these kids have problems and they know steps that could be taken to help them, those steps are just not done on a consistent basis. Also the expectations of many children in low performing schools is just not up to par to other higher achieving traditional schools and charter schools. I have a friend with a child at Drew and prior to coming to Drew he was in a suburban district and got mostly Cs. At Drew Cs are not acceptable and her child was referred to tutoring and even Saturday school. He gets all As now and is doing very well. They expected more of him at Drew (he was also referred to sport programs and STEM clubs at the school). There is no reason why they should not have expected the same at his old school and provided tutoring.
In regards to tutoring, I agree people with more money can provide tutoring to their children. Though my son's school provides tutoring via an afterschool program, because I have the money, I have sent him to tutoring for writing, which is something that he consistently needs help in (he has a writing LD) so that he can improve in that area. Drew and KIPP and other high performing charters provide longer hours and extensive tutoring to kids. There is no reason why traditional schools cannot do the same thing (this is something I feel APS should put in a reform plan). Traditional schools can also expel problematic students, they just don't do it when they should (this is another topic I think should be in an APS reform plan). Most uninvolved parents don't want their kids home everyday with them anyway. Sad to say it but it is true. If the kid was expelled, the parent would do whatever they could, especially for a younger child, to get the child back in school.
For books, I do feel it is up to the individual administrators. My son previously went to a school in a low income neighborhood with over 500 kids (more kids go there now since other schools closed in the area). They had new books every 2 years and the kids I know who still go there have textbooks that match with Common Core.
They just are not spending money on the right things. They need to increase the school day (and pay teachers for it). Provide quality tutoring programs and stiffen disciplinary policy and stick to the policy (they make too many concessions IMO and provide too many chances). Doing that will improve inner city schools along with continuing to provide adequate special services to kids who need it.
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) but that's the way they do things in regular publics.
