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As long as Cobb is going to help fund the Connect the Comet spur.
Funding it is not a problem and we don't really even need Cobb or Fulton to fund it, at least aside from small matches. PATH already knows where to get funds for it. The problem is we can't get CSX to give a decision on abandoning the line, even though it's out of use. They already delayed their self-imposed deadline given by their executives once, indefinitely it seems. We need people to sign the petition and keep pushing state and local lawmakers to push CSX to do something.
Funding it is not a problem and we don't really even need Cobb or Fulton to fund it, at least aside from small matches. PATH already knows where to get funds for it. The problem is we can't get CSX to give a decision on abandoning the line, even though it's out of use. They already delayed their self-imposed deadline given by their executives once, indefinitely it seems. We need people to sign the petition and keep pushing state and local lawmakers to push CSX to do something.
What's their source for this? What your source for the added info on CSX dragging their feet?
That rail segment has 3 problems to being abandoned on the route you show:
1) That is CSX only route to the large power plant and their only potential to compete for coal delivery contracts, which bring in a large amount of money for the freight RR industry
2) It is a crucial segment to aid in interchange agreements between NS and CSX, right at two major classification yards for both carriers. As much as they try to keep things in network as possible, RRs still enjoy monopoly access to many locations, so freight still will interchange between carriers.
3) At the southern end.... a sizable portion of the right of way is Howell Yard, which is still an active yard. That isn't going to easily go away.
I will not push state and local lawmakers to shoot ourselves in the foot. If it is still used, it is still used.
Now a segment in Cobb, which borders a small industrial area might be abandoned for a small stretch.
Are there alternates, such as using the proctorcreek greenway, which I thought was an original route for moving trails to the northwest. In Cobb south of the East-west connectors are rivers with side flood plains that would be perfect for building tail that could connect to proctor creek.
What's their source for this? What your source for the added info on CSX dragging their feet?
Because I'm one of the organizers of the Connect The Comet effort and we are working with PATH's Ed McBrayer on it.
Feel free to come to our next meeting:
Sun, July 13, 4:30pm – 6:00pm
Where: Vinings Bank, 4135 Atlanta Road Southeast, Smyrna, GA, United States (map)
Description: The Silver Comet Trail is unfinished. The State of Georgia needs to acquire 7 more miles of Silver Comet railroad track and convert it to trail for an Atlanta BeltLine Connection. Help us educate people and create public pressure to "Connect the Comet". Attend the "Connect the Comet" meeting, sign the petition at connectthecomet.org. Join "Connect the Comet" members on Facebook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro
1) That is CSX only route to the large power plant and their only potential to compete for coal delivery contracts, which bring in a large amount of money for the freight RR industry
Plant Atkinson has been converted to natural gas. The rail line is out of service, but not yet abandoned. "Out of service" and "Abandoned" mean something completely different legally.
We have NPU members on the Atlanta side and Cobb residents on the Cobb side close to the track keep who an eye on it. Our members do not see trains ever run up and down the Silver Comet anymore. There are a couple linkages to the Austell and W&A lines around Plant Atkinson and occasionally - about once every six months, not regularly - our members have seen trains backed all the way onto the Silver Comet for a few hundred feet or more for temporary storage. The state has already expressed willingness to CSX to offer swaps so they can store cars elsewhere. However, CSX has never brought this up as a concern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro
2) It is a crucial segment to aid in interchange agreements between NS and CSX, right at two major classification yards for both carriers. As much as they try to keep things in network as possible, RRs still enjoy monopoly access to many locations, so freight still will interchange between carriers.
CSX didn't bring this up as a concern, but you never know. However, there are already W&A and Norfolk Southern linkages right there, so I don't see the Silver Comet as essential.
What CSX did bring up as a concern was that commuter rail could take away a couple rail lines at the depot that they'd need to make up for. However, that was before they started moving forward with the formal write-off process for abandonment with March as their deadline, at which point they fell silent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro
3) At the southern end.... a sizable portion of the right of way is Howell Yard, which is still an active yard. That isn't going to easily go away.
We're pretty sure based on those in the NPUs and other Atlanta members that Collier Rd is as far as we'll get in a dedicated right of way. Past Collier Rd, they do use the lines in Howell's yard. For the last mile to the Bellwood Quarry, PATH will need to get creative. Neighborhood members in ATL have proposed some ideas. For now, we're focused on just getting the portion of the rail abandoned at least to Collier Rd and then have the Belt Line and Path work together with NPUs to figure out the last mile. Though if the opportunity presents itself to complete the last mile ahead of the rest of the trail, I'm sure we'll jump on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro
Now a segment in Cobb, which borders a small industrial area might be abandoned for a small stretch.
Nothing is "abandoned". "Abandoned" is a legal term. "Out of service" is the correct term, and the stretch from approximately Collier Rd in Atlanta to East-West Connector in Smyrna is "out of service". Past Oakdale Rd, which I haven't seen a train on since 2007, there are even small trees growing up in the rail and the ties are rotted out on some stretches. The line has also been ripped up across Oakdale Rd and paved over. On the parts South of Oakdale Rd, there's already grass growing up on some stretches and it seems only marginally maintained. I recommend you walk the entire stretch to get a feel of just how poorly maintained it is (though I'd avoid the trestle across the river and take roads Defoor's Ferry to the other side of the river - watch out, it's steep to get down)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro
Are there alternates, such as using the proctorcreek greenway,
That's a whole different trail. There's no need for that as an alternative yet at this point until we get CSX's "final" decision. Even then, there's still room for the state to apply pressure, dangle carrots or just out-right eminent domain. Proctor Creek has its own issues causing delays, since the cleanup isn't going as smoothly as expected. Hopefully, someday, both trails combined, along with the river line trails in both Cobb and Fulton, and along with the Belt Line and Bellwood Quarry park will make for a nice trail network in the NW of the city.
If there were a need for an alternative, it would probably be one of the already-explored alignments by Belt Line and Cobb DOT separately that includes roadside trails, such as along Marietta Blvd and Atlanta Rd, and using the Whetstone Creek trail where possible. We'd prefer to have those as connections, not as THE trail.
Last edited by netdragon; 07-09-2014 at 03:18 PM..
Just so you know - since some of the people working with us were involved with the original Silver Comet effort - CSX is just like this. They don't want to spend their time on something they don't feel is important to them. Political leaders have to contact them many many times to get anywhere. For the original trail, I was told that conversations started and stopped about eight times. That's why we need people creating noise about it, because every time state and local leaders are contacted, they contact CSX. Every time CSX gets contacted, they move a little further along in the process and start talking with PATH again, at least for a while.
I'm glad your an organizer... but that in itself is not directly a source of the questions I was asking.
I'm assuming you mean your source is word of mouth through the Path organization? Nothing officially stated between CSX and the GDOT?
Good to hear about the power plant. I wasn't aware they decommissioned the coal plan when they made the natural gas units. That certainly would've been the biggest hurdle for CSX. They can still use it to access some sort of plant across the river though, (not power. I'm not actually sure what it is)
The W&A is the busiest mainline CSX has in the area. That segment of the comet from Howell Yard to Plant Atkinson just across the river allows them to handle the local delivery without affecting the W&A and operations at Tillford yard. Do you know anything about that plant/mill on the Atlanta side of the river?
In regards to your second reply.... I feel compelled to stick up for CSX.
Once a railroad is abandoned in a city like Atlanta... they can't get it back. Therefore they will hold onto it if there is future us for it. Walking paths can be re routed and built far cheaper than RR bed ever can be. I like Rails to trails programs throughout the US, but ultimately it should only me if there is no way the RR will never use it again. If that is true, they will want to get rid of that property as it is a liability. They be a willing participant and not overly coerced.
The FRA uses the term abandonment. Until it is officially abandoned it is under their regulations and cities, counties, and states must interact with the line within FRA regulations.
I'd also be careful suggesting a local government could attempt to yes eminent domain for a local project for a railroad. That is opening Pandora's box and a divide between the GDOT, the FRA and Atlanta/Cobb/PATH.
See the railroad being a type of essential public utility has laws specifically crafted to help them, but also govern them. One of those powers granted to them is eminent domain itself. It would be interesting to see that play out in state courts, but the power was granted them to prevent a single town or land owner from keeping a region wide transportation from being able to operate. This probably means you can't use eminent domain to coerce them, especially if the GDOT is not on your side. If this wasn't the case a small town could essentially hold ransom access to RR mainlines that affect others throughout the region.
Eminent domain is a last resort, and no politicians are ready to go down that path yet, or any time soon. In fact, it's much more likely that they they would just refuse to renew the lease when it comes up. There are some big wins for eminent domain for rails-to-trails.
There's also the concept of rail-banking, where CSX could get the line back in certain cases. However, this is probably not an appropriate line for rail-banking since it would really be devestating if they exercised that right after everyone got used to the Belt Line being connected to the Silver Comet.
What's frustrating is the lack of response from CSX after they started looking into it. With a "no" answer, we could at least decide what to do next.
Eminent domain is a last resort, and no politicians are ready to go down that path yet, or any time soon. In fact, it's much more likely that they they would just refuse to renew the lease when it comes up. There are some big wins for eminent domain for rails-to-trails.
There's also the concept of rail-banking, where CSX could get the line back in certain cases. However, this is probably not an appropriate line for rail-banking since it would really be devestating if they exercised that right after everyone got used to the Belt Line being connected to the Silver Comet.
What's frustrating is the lack of response from CSX after they started looking into it. With a "no" answer, we could at least decide what to do next.
I think you're missing what I'm saying...
Eminent domain over a railroad?
Where/when has that been done for a trail conversion? Especially over a FRA regulate rail line that is also granted power of eminent domain by both the state and federal government.
I understand your frustration, but I don't think you a trail conversion project has that much power (or should have that much power).
The Railroad has to choose to abandon the line through a process with the GDOT and FRA. I don't think that can be forced.
And I think the whole silver comet is rail banked by the state and is owned by the GDOT, so in the distant future it could go back into service.
It's been done multiple times recently successfully, and been discussed at Rails to Trails meetings. Just Google it to learn of the examples. However, in one case - Colorado - it was fought to the Supreme Court by the original land owner that thought it should have reverted back to him, once it was no longer used by the rail line. That original land owner won, but it was a very narrow ruling that probably wouldn't apply here.
Rails to Trails recommends against using eminent domain. PATH and politicians are not considering it yet. However, it is legally doable. The state would probably have to reimburse CSX for the remaining lease.
You are correct that the existing Silver Comet is rail-banked. We wouldn't want the new stretch rail-banked if avoidable because of the risk the entire line could be put in service someday.
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