AJC Atlanta Forward: Making the case for regionalism (Dallas, Clayton: construction, compensation)

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

Oh come now, just stop already. You know better than that. You are not naive.

The conservative-dominated state government created this mess in the first place. And Metro-Atlanta is already segregated. The living scene is segregated. The job scene is segregated. The nightscene is segregated.

Do I really need to bring back the threads rehashing the old debates on the cityhood movements? The fact that the conservatives purposely spiked the 2012 TSPLOST referendum so that it wouldn't succeed to begin with?

The fact that we are still waiting for Cobb and Gwinnett's demographics to "diversify" to change their collective political and social outlook on mass transit...should speak volumes to the politically aware.

So why are we still on this pretense stuff?

Let us for once just push past the shallow pseudo-speak...and simply push forward a decent transportation bill that people can get behind. Let's at least get the ball rolling before we start choking on these fumes.

And stop wasting more time humoring this notion of people not looking at color and ethnicity when mapping out their life.

Hear, hear!

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

I'm undecided on whether or not I will attend a baseball game at the future Suntrust Park, where the Braves will soon play. I find it quite strange that Cobb County will lay off so many teachers, but there is no problem in funding a new stadium will will cost billions. The same county that refused MARTA rail(not the same as MARTA bus) several times.

They are? Wow.

A couple months ago, I showed that with all the money that Cobb County is throwing at SunTrust park, instead they could have given every teacher in their school system a $5500 raise for ten years. Imagine what that could do for Cobb County. And here I was thinking that they don't mess around.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

They are? Wow.

A couple months ago, I showed that with all the money that Cobb County is throwing at SunTrust park, instead they could have given every teacher in their school system a $5500 raise for ten years. Imagine what that could do for Cobb County. And here I was thinking that they don't mess around.

Um, they're NOT actually laying off teachers, but are hiring more, AND are giving them a decent raise for next year.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by evannole

Um, they're NOT actually laying off teachers, but are hiring more, AND are giving them a decent raise for next year.

Alright, well, how many, and how much of a raise?

[evannole]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

Alright, well, how many, and how much of a raise?

The raise is 4%, I believe. And frankly, I think they managed relatively well to minimize layoffs during the recession, instead instituting furlough days, which are now gone. They just held a job fair with the aim to fill several hundred open teacher positions. My neighbor, who is a HS principal and was one of the interviewers, said it was extraordinarily well attended.

[skbl17]

Alright, a few points that can get lost in a demographically-centered discussion:

- On state antagonism towards Atlanta: This is nothing new; in fact, the "two Georgias" mentality has been a defining feature of Georgia politics for almost a century. The old county unit system (one of the reasons why we have so many counties) was skewed to grant disproportionate influence to rural areas in electing governors. To this very day, some General Assembly politicians get elected in part because they emphasize their "opposition to Atlanta" during their campaigns.

The "local control" movement is very strong in metro Atlanta - just look at the new cities - but I'm not sure that such a provincial attitude shouldn't translate to something as vital for the region as public transportation.

- Regional bodies: Where they exist in Atlanta, they are weak and spineless. One poster mentioned Portland's MAX system. I should note that one reason Portland "has its act together" is because of the power of its regional government, Metro, which actually has the power to take action on issues of importance to the region as a whole, such as transit (if TriMet ever goes under, Metro can take it over,) and land use (the famous Portland urban growth boundary is a Metro creation). ARC, by contrast, is a spineless "metropolitan planning organization" that can only draw up plans and hope that local governments take action on them. When Roy Barnes created GRTA, the endgame for the agency was that it would take over all mass transit in metro Atlanta, unifying the entire Atlanta region under one public transit body. Unfortunately, the state flag of all things brought Barnes down, and the new governor Sonny Perdue decided the status quo was "good enough" and gutted GRTA, leaving it as the weak commuter bus operator it is today.

On a side note, I think arjay57 once posted about how China could get stuff done much, much quicker than the U.S. can ever hope for. Despite my response (human rights issues, no property rights, etc.), I do at times envy the Chinese. When they want to build ten new subway lines, they just do it. When they want to build new airports or high-speed rail lines, they just do it. Here, we have to jump through 600 hoops, do 40 different studies, hope for the funding, and pray that the NIMBYs don't catch wind of the project and shut it all down.

- skbl17

[jero23]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Alright... I have to chime in here. We have to be more careful.

First, so there is no confusion I completely agree with your premise and it is an excellent point. Creating an atmosphere where people can ideologically get along, they can move forward together easier.


But throughout this threat are tons of small remarks/comments that seem to be stuck in the old way of thinking.

The suburbs are not all predominately white anymore and unlike what another poster mentioned earlier Gwinnett County is easily the most diverse place in town, despite not being liberal enough for him Gwinnett is actually a very well managed county within itself and people are not rushing to make aggressive changes.

And in case anyone has forgotten Dekalb, Clayton, Rockdale counties are all suburbs too.

Another important thing to mention is diversity beyond white and black is increasing. Many of these new populations don't fully prescribe to the South's older black liberal and white conservative platforms, even if they trend more conservative or liberal. They are also found in the suburbs more often.

In time this can change the behavior of the parties for specific positions and it can also make some people left out of the process where they don't vote.

One small example is Hispanics often come from societies that are much more economically conservative, than here. Yet, they are completely scared away from the Republican party for their social stances.

I said predominately because that particular group still make up the numeric and statistical majority of the metro (including all jurisdictions in the 29 counties). Additionally, they are the only reliable voting bloc in those exurban areas as well. Yeah, the region is become increasing diverse, but until the electoral patterns mirrors that diversity doesn't mean much other than some demographic banter.

Dallas has that social conservative homogeneity; whereas Atlanta does not. Hence why this region is stifled on so many fronts because the non-white groups here are more politically aggressive and powerful in addition to social progressive whites in the urban core and many others (white) social conservatives on the outskirts dislike and despises that.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by jero23

You just answered your own question...see the embolden for example...

There is no huge divide between Dallas and its suburbs because it is large socially conservative city, so is Houston. Where there is little political/ideological divide then of course things between the core city(ities) and suburbs will cooperate. Atlanta doesn't have that luxury because it is a large (black) socially progressive city surrounded by socially conservative and (still to this day) mostly predominately white suburbs and exurbs.

Well like liberal Portland with extremely strong land use controls, conservative Dallas with its lenient land use plans (and it wasn't real conservative-just compared to other big cities-on a side note its gotten much more liberal since the 80s when the referendum passed-the county's offices are all held by Democrats now) still built a rail system. In fact, Dallas has the largest (in terms of miles) light rail system in the country. And it goes to all those suburbs. About the only one that doesn't-Addison-is threatening to pull out unless rail gets built to serve them.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by skbl17

- On state antagonism towards Atlanta: This is nothing new; in fact, the "two Georgias" mentality has been a defining feature of Georgia politics for almost a century. The old county unit system (one of the reasons why we have so many counties) was skewed to grant disproportionate influence to rural areas in electing governors. To this very day, some General Assembly politicians get elected in part because they emphasize their "opposition to Atlanta" during their campaigns.

If we could get a few of the Big mules harnessed up to pull for Atlanta things could turn around quickly.

There are bound to be some possibilities.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by jero23

I said predominately because that particular group still make up the numeric and statistical majority of the metro (including all jurisdictions in the 29 counties). Additionally, they are the only reliable voting bloc in those exurban areas as well. Yeah, the region is become increasing diverse, but until the electoral patterns mirrors that diversity doesn't mean much other than some demographic banter.

Dallas has that social conservative homogeneity; whereas Atlanta does not. Hence why this region is stifled on so many fronts because the non-white groups here are more politically aggressive and powerful in addition to social progressive whites in the urban core and many others (white) social conservatives on the outskirts dislike and despises that.

I just fear from so many of the comments here that we discussing the suburbs in a way they are not always.

Gwinnett easily has to be the most diverse place in the region, yet we keep citing overall diversity as an issue. Gwinnett is no longer majority non-hispanic white and it is a core suburban county. We needs to remember the trends in the way the region is changing.

Other suburban areas are now solidly majority of another minority.

And please realize I wasn't intending to say what I was saying just at you. I was concerned with a fraction of one of your comments, but it has been popping up throughout the thread.