MARTA to make an $8 billion pitch to change the face of Atlanta (Buford: average cost, natural gas)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Well, we can certainly push for it with this referendum. It's our money, let's put it to good use!

The overhaul would not need additional funds, Houston accomplished it without spending more money. Also, the overhaul would cross jurisdictions that did not approve the sales tax increase. The priority of this increase should be expansion of the streetcar and infill stations.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by cqholt

The overhaul would not need additional funds, Houston accomplished it without spending more money. Also, the overhaul would cross jurisdictions that did not approve the sales tax increase. The priority of this increase should be expansion of the streetcar and infill stations.

ART routes would require additional funds to impliment between the new buses, shelters, and road improvementds.

[primaltech]

Yeah, fixing the MARTA bus wouldn't require much additional money. Maybe a bit.

It requires pooling all existing resources, pooling the bus fleet, then restarting the system design from scratch with fewer routes, with fewer stops. And have more buses running those routes, to achieve high frequency.

Obviously you'd have routes on Peachtree, Ponce, Piedmont, Roswell, Clairmont, Memorial, BuHi, Northside, North/DL Hollowell, Moreland, MLK, Metropolitan, Candler, Lavista. With some redesign of some of those.

But maybe you'd have about half as many routes as now, with double the amount of buses running the route.

And with far fewer stops. Maybe as much as 2/3 fewer. That huge performance change would cost nothing.

Upgrading the surviving stops into nice bus stations would cost something, but shouldn't be more than a few million.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Yeah, fixing the MARTA bus wouldn't require much additional money. Maybe a bit.

It requires pooling all existing resources, pooling the bus fleet, then restarting the system design from scratch with fewer routes, with fewer stops. And have more buses running those routes, to achieve high frequency.

Obviously you'd have routes on Peachtree, Ponce, Piedmont, Roswell, Clairmont, Memorial, BuHi, Northside, North/DL Hollowell, Moreland, MLK, Metropolitan, Candler, Lavista. With some redesign of some of those.

But maybe you'd have about half as many routes as now, with double the amount of buses running the route.

And with far fewer stops. Maybe as much as 2/3 fewer. That huge performance change would cost nothing.

Upgrading the surviving stops into nice bus stations would cost something, but shouldn't be more than a few million.

Which is why I referenced Houston METRO's bus network overhaul. It costs them little to nothing more and while they lost some routes, they gained more frequent service.

[primaltech]

I don't know how many MARTA bus routes there are total, but let's say maybe you reduce that to 30 or so different routes, or lines. But each is basically an ART, rapid transit bus, with 10-15 minute normal service during business hours, and 24/7/365 at least 30-min service.

And you make sure at least one or two routes are running in every geographical area of the MARTA service area. So South Fulton would get a line, east DeKalb, North Fulton, would all get at least something. Clayton would get maybe 3 routes, and the impoverished areas of Atlanta would get covered by something. It just would be on the main road, not on side streets.

I think what you do from a strategy standpoint is set and maintain such a very high quality and high frequency standard for a bus route, as non-negotiable. Rapid, convenient, awesome. Like BRT. Then you say, yes we could do double the routes, and put a line just like this going to these uncovered neighborhoods, but we'd need new funding.

Rather than the existing strategy of stretching out way too thin. All of MARTA's assets, all their hundreds of buses and stops, and people still gotta stand out there waiting an hour for a bus. That's ridiculous. Doesn't make any sense to me.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I don't know how many MARTA bus routes there are total, but let's say maybe you reduce that to 30 or so different routes, or lines. But each is basically an ART, rapid transit bus, with 10-15 minute normal service during business hours, and 24/7/365 at least 30-min service.

And you make sure at least one or two routes are running in every geographical area of the MARTA service area. So South Fulton would get a line, east DeKalb, North Fulton, would all get at least something. Clayton would get maybe 3 routes, and the impoverished areas of Atlanta would get covered by something. It just would be on the main road, not on side streets.

I think what you do from a strategy standpoint is set and maintain such a very high quality and high frequency standard for a bus route, as non-negotiable. Rapid, convenient, awesome. Like BRT. Then you say, yes we could do double the routes, and put a line just like this going to these uncovered neighborhoods, but we'd need new funding.

Rather than the existing strategy of stretching out way too thin. All of MARTA's assets, all their hundreds of buses and stops, and people still gotta stand out there waiting an hour for a bus. That's ridiculous. Doesn't make any sense to me.

While we need key corridors to have ART or rapid service, we still need smaller roads to have more localized route, which is why MARTA is looking at different size buses for different levels of service. 35-40' buses should not be used on every route, we need flexibility among our bus network.

[primaltech]

Yeah, 3 sizes would be good. The existing standard bus being the 'medium' size. Then you have an articulated, high capacity bus running on prime routes like the 110, the 5, and the 39.

And then I can see the smaller sized bus (like the Atlantic Station shuttle bus), being used as small shuttle loop neighborhood circulators feeding off the train stations.

Like, how about a Grant Park circulator bus that takes passengers from King Memorial station, and runs straight down and drops them right at the front door of the zoo, then makes a couple more stops on the way back up, like at Glenwood Park.

Would make a lot more sense and easier to navigate, than whatever the current slow, indirect route mess is now.

[CCATL]

Originally Posted by cqholt

While we need key corridors to have ART or rapid service, we still need smaller roads to have more localized route, which is why MARTA is looking at different size buses for different levels of service. 35-40' buses should not be used on every route, we need flexibility among our bus network.

Yes. We can't have only a few bus routes serving major corridors with high frequency. We need these smaller buses serving local areas, also with good frequency, to achieve last mile connectivity. Not everybody lives on a major corridor, and we can't get rid of busses traveling through residential areas.

[CCATL]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Yeah, 3 sizes would be good. The existing standard bus being the 'medium' size. Then you have an articulated, high capacity bus running on prime routes like the 110, the 5, and the 39.

And then I can see the smaller sized bus (like the Atlantic Station shuttle bus), being used as small shuttle loop neighborhood circulators feeding off the train stations.

Like, how about a Grant Park circulator bus that takes passengers from King Memorial station, and runs straight down and drops them right at the front door of the zoo, then makes a couple more stops on the way back up, like at Glenwood Park.

Would make a lot more sense and easier to navigate, than whatever the current slow, indirect route mess is now.

The neighborhood transportation committee (part of GPNA) is actually pushing for this exact route when MARTA is able to adjust their routes. I think they were talking about running from King Memorial down towards the zoo, new development on Grant, over to the Boulevard side, and back up.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by CCATL

The neighborhood transportation committee (part of GPNA) is actually pushing for this exact route when MARTA is able to adjust their routes. I think they were talking about running from King Memorial down towards the zoo, new development on Grant, over to the Boulevard side, and back up.

These types of routes normally don't perform very well.

That doesn't mean none of them would, but you have to get the ridership. And once you are at King Memorial, it doesn't make sense to transfer if you are going downtown.