Johns Creek city council votes "full and complete opposition" to MARTA rail expansion (Atlanta: construction, sales tax)

[MattCW]

I take issue with multiple parts of this:

WHEREAS, the expansion of MARTA will provide limited benefit to the residents of the City of
Johns Creek

As stated by someone else above, this will put MARTA rail a lot closer to a lot of the western residents. It will also help those who will still drive into the city of Atlanta by pulling other people out of their cars.

WHEREAS, the inherent design of MARTA is flawed and cannot serve as an effective commuter
rail system;

WHAT!? It's far more service than a commuter rail system. As someone else pointed out elsewhere very recently, if the GA-400 corridor had an existing rail corridor, then it wouldn't make sense to run HRT along it, but they don't so they're getting a far superior service which is far more effective, possibly to the point of overkill to a degree.

WHEREAS, the expansion of MARTA would increase the volume of traffic at the most congested
intersections; AND
WHEREAS, the expansion of MARTA would increase the volume of traffic through the City of
Johns Creek as users of MARTA;

Huh? If it's not anywhere near Johns Creek as they basically assert, then how could it increase the volume of traffic? Even so, how would it increase anything? The vast majority of people heading to the stations will be people who already to head to those areas anyways.

[primaltech]

I think what they really meant by all that is, "We hate taxes and any kind of government, we hate anything that's socially progressive or urban in any way, we hate anything that takes the emphasis off of cars in any way, we hate black people and the poor and the homeless, we hate Atlanta and don't want to be connected to it and want our area to remain quiet and isolated, and we hate MARTA just like our parents always did." Or something along those lines. Same old same old thing. I've lived in the south long enough to read all the wealthy suburban WASP code words. The design of MARTA is not flawed at all- it's a brilliant hybrid system that efficiently serves as suburban commuter rail and urban subway, seamlessly connecting the two. So they can take their stubborn MARTA opposition mentality to the grave with them, let the next generation come in, who are hopefully more open minded.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by flyonpa

I'm Not sure why MARTA is asking for a extra 1/2 cent Sales Tax for the Red Line Extension up into North Fulton County.

Seem North Fulton should get a 1/2 cent credit for the 40 years they have payed for minor bus service, after all that's the deal Clayton got 1/2c for bus service, 1/2c for Rail (in Escrow) to be used when the rail is built.

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

Yeah, sounds to me like Johns Creek (among other things) is annoyed that it already pays the MARTA tax and has pretty much nothing to show for it.

You can't really argue with them there, though some of the other points I don't think make too much sense.

In addition to the other reasons, there's the fact of the matter that a 1% Sales tax isn't enough to cover the expansion. It's the same for why the Clifton corridor hasn't been built yet, or why the I-20 east extension isn't built. If the existing sales tax was enough, I can all but guarantee you that the extension would have been built.

If we are to get rail expansions at all, we're going to have to pay extra for it. That includes South Fulton (though they really should be getting a commuter rail projects), City of Atlanta, and Dekalb. If we don't pay more, then nothing will change, just as it hasn't in the past fifteen years.

That's the reality of the situation, and no amount of fussing will change it.

[skbl17]

"The design is flawed"? When you have:

- Three (two as of 2014) of the five counties not participating in MARTA,
- Limited financial resources due to state restrictions and commute types,
- Landowners hostile to new roadway and MARTA development, and
- Metropolitan density justifying rail along only a few corridors,

Of course you're not going to have rail lines snaking all over the place, especially places like Johns Creek. As has been pointed out already, Johns Creek was very rural until two decades or so ago. Even now, I don't see much justification for anything other than BRT and local buses in those parts of North Fulton away from GA 400.

- skbl17

[primaltech]

Yeah, Johns Creek has never paid for rail in Johns Creek with their taxes. First of all, the city is only a few years old, and the area was literally rural farmland a couple decades ago.

Fulton County as a whole, which includes the area which is now known as the "city" of Johns Creek, has had a 1% sales tax for MARTA for decades, which paid and continues to pay for their existing rail through the core parts of the county, and for maintenance thereof.

When Roswell and Alpharetta grew up thanks to GA 400, it started to become an area that needed rail. But that doesn't mean that the existing 1% sales tax is enough to pay for that, or that anyone could reasonably expect it to be. Let alone when we're talking about Johns Creek up in the extreme corner of the county, and in a bit of an awkward location with non-MARTA Gwinnett to its south, between Johns Creek and the city that supports it.

[CCATL]

I'm actually really surprised. I'm often really upset after I read through AJC comments. But a good 95% or more of the comments there are calling the Johns Creek mayor and city council idiots, and expressing the need for MARTA expansion throughout the metro area. I know the AJC comments aren't at all representative of how the majority feels, considering people commenting are usually VERY conservative, I'd say that's a great sign for public support for MARTA expansion in at least Fulton County.

[arjay57]

This is a good thing for MARTA.

Johns Creek clearly doesn't want to be a part of MARTA at this point or get zapped with an additional 1/2% MARTA tax. So be it. It would be hard to justify running a rail line out there to begin with.

I'd much prefer to see MARTA focus on beefing up the system where it already exists, getting rid of the maintenance backlog, and continuing to work on efficiency.

MARTA will attract more riders through excellence than it will by extending out into low density and relatively hostile areas.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by arjay57

This is a good thing for MARTA.

Johns Creek clearly doesn't want to be a part of MARTA at this point or get zapped with an additional 1/2% MARTA tax. So be it. It would be hard to justify running a rail line out there to begin with.

I'd much prefer to see MARTA focus on beefing up the system where it already exists, getting rid of the maintenance backlog, and continuing to work on efficiency.

MARTA will attract more riders through excellence than it will by extending out into low density and relatively hostile areas.

You're missing it entirely. They're opposed to the existing planned Red Line extension up 400, something that is frankly none of their business at worst, and only hurting themselves at best. It won't be anywhere near Johns Creek. They're trying to screw things up for everyone else.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MattCW

You're missing it entirely. They're opposed to the existing planned Red Line extension up 400, something that is frankly none of their business at worst, and only hurting themselves at best. It won't be anywhere near Johns Creek. They're trying to screw things up for everyone else.

Sounds to me like they don't want anything whatsoever to do with MARTA. That includes cut thru traffic, an additional 1/2% tax, the potential for high density development or anything else.

So be it. Let MARTA focus on areas where it is wanted and where it seen as a value added proposition. Not where it isn't.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Sounds to me like they don't want anything whatsoever to do with MARTA. That includes cut thru traffic, an additional 1/2% tax, the potential for high density development or anything else.

So be it. Let MARTA focus on areas where it is wanted and where it seen as a value added proposition. Not where it isn't.

Except that the funding needs to be a county effort. That's whether it's GA 400, or in town light rail, or streetcars. Any rail expansions require funds on the county levels (CoA is the only city in the metro really capable of footing the bill for significant transit on its own).

If Johns Creek is throwing a wrench into the works on a county sales tax, it doesn't matter where MARTA tries to put expansions, they simply won't have the money.

So, whether or not Johns Creek feels the need for MARTA, they are a voting part of Fulton County. If they try to block the county's ability to hold a vote on the sales tax increase (not actually sure how much they can do this, not great with county politics), then they're impacting MARTA's ability to do anything, not just extend the red line.