Urban Sprawls Poster Childs Grows Up (Atlanta, Carrollton: 2014, homes, employment)

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by demonta4

If NYC has more sprawl than Atlanta can't take the cake for it. You're contradicting yourself. Sprawl is sprawl, no matter how dense it is. There's no way around the fact that Atlanta doesn't sprawl as far as some would like to think. The simple reason our MSA is so big is because we're the biggest city for hundreds of miles which makes it seem as if all of these rural counties associate with the city.

Yeah, I see you really don't understand how all this works.

And the standard isn't MSA, it's urbanized area.

Originally Posted by arjay57

What is this "willful dismissal" rigmarole? Of course Atlanta has plenty of suburban sprawl, but find me a major city that doesn't.

So why repeat the continued mantra -- with all the negative connotations it invokes -- about Atlanta being the "poster child for sprawl"?

For example, Boston's far-flung, low density growth is more extensive than ours but nobody refers to Boston as the "poster child for sprawl."

LOL, I guess you just conveniently skipped over this little tidbit in your quote: "Overall, the Atlanta urban area is the least dense in the world with more than 2.5 million population."

Furthermore, that source uses wrongly CSA as a baseline when it should be urbanized area.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by aries4118

Your first time...I see. Yah, he's been this way for years--but only a few call him out on it.

It's game/tactic--he's totally playing with you.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by demonta4

Sprawl and Density don't correlate. There is dense sprawl and low density sprawl. Atlanta overall is not very dense, but our sprawl doesn't reach out very far. Most of our development is in the five core counties and even those counties aren't fully developed. Places like LA have worse sprawl and traffic, and saying there are more people doesn't make the quality of life and commute time any better.

Atlanta sprawls almost to the Alabama and Tennessee borders!

It has a lot of hopscotch development outside 285. And, of course, its urbanized area doesn't have the same level of density either.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

LOL, I guess you just conveniently skipped over this little tidbit in your quote: "Overall, the Atlanta urban area is the least dense in the world with more than 2.5 million population."

Er, that's the point (or at least part of it), isn't it?

[demonta4]

Originally Posted by bu2

Atlanta sprawls almost to the Alabama and Tennessee borders!

It has a lot of hopscotch development outside 285. And, of course, its urbanized area doesn't have the same level of density either.

Um, no it doesn't. Development also occurs in rural Georgia cities, that doesn't make it sprawl of Atlanta. There are second and third tier cities in north and West Georgia. ( ex: Cartersville, Dalton, Carrollton, Bremen). Atlanta doesn't sprawl anywhere near Alabama or Tennessee and won't anytime in the future.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by demonta4

Um, no it doesn't. Development also occurs in rural Georgia cities, that doesn't make it sprawl of Atlanta. There are second and third tier cities in north and West Georgia. ( ex: Cartersville, Dalton, Carrollton, Bremen). Atlanta doesn't sprawl anywhere near Alabama or Tennessee and won't anytime in the future.

Denying facts doesn't make them any less facts.

The Atlanta MSA does go all the way to the Alabama border. Carrollton is in the Atlanta MSA. And the MSA goes as far north as Bartow and Dawson Counties.

[demonta4]

Originally Posted by bu2

Denying facts doesn't make them any less facts.

The Atlanta MSA does go all the way to the Alabama border. Carrollton is in the Atlanta MSA. And the MSA goes as far north as Bartow and Dawson Counties.

Just because they're in the MSA doesn't make it sprawl. People in Carrollton don't commute to Atlanta. Our MSA is too big anyway, many of the counties don't associate with Atlanta.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by demonta4

Just because they're in the MSA doesn't make it sprawl. People in Carrollton don't commute to Atlanta. Our MSA is too big anyway, many of the counties don't associate with Atlanta.

Look up the definition of MSA. People in Carrollton do work in the area. That's why it is part of the MSA.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

Low-density sprawl, insufficient highway network, less extensive overall transit system = poster child for urban sprawl. Like it or not, Atlanta has earned that title and being located in a state that is generally hostile to urban interests hasn't helped at all.

Poster child for urban sprawl is the city that suffers the worse consequences for urban sprawl. We are not that city, I'm not even sure how that is debatable.

The density stat is overplayed in this argument and makes for lazy classification, that is my point.

Not seeing LA or Houston on that list, BTW

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by bhammaster

Is that 8 billion proposal official or just a pitch? What does it specifically entail?

It's a pitch that MARTA is trying very hard to make a reality. So far it includes:

1. Connect 400 - 11 miles Heavy Rail
2. I-20 East - 12 miles Heavy Rail
3. Clifton Corridor - 8 miles Light Rail
4. Atlanta Streetcar - to be determined mile of Streetcar / Light Rail
5. Select Bus Route Upgrades to Arterial Rapid Transit Routes - 11 in Fulton
6. New Non-Rail Transit Centers spread across the metro - 6 in Fulton
7. New Bus Routes - 10 in Fulton
8. New neighborhood / city flex/circulator services - 5 in Fulton
9. New Commuter Bus route - 1 in Fulton
10. I-20 East - 9 miles HOV Bus Transit (maybe)
11. I-20 West - 2 miles Heavy Rail (maybe)

You can read about the Fulton portion here.