GDOT reverses course, approves road diet for Avondale Estates' main street (Atlanta: school, live)

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by MattCW

You act like it's a huge big deal to walk across a four-lane road, or take a golf cart across it. It isn't. If you can walk a mile and a half to get to the zoo, then I think most people are capable of walking across a road.

I've been thinking the same thing. It's quite odd that someone can call people horrible parents for not wanting to walk 1.5 miles with their toddlers, but apparently is unfit to cross a small parking lot or 4-lane road.

Originally Posted by cqholt

If the traffic count was high enough to warranty it being 4 lanes, but let's be honest outside of a few hours per week this street has too much capacity.

That's not an argument that will work. By that logic, MARTA should run only as many trains as it takes to fill up cars. The streetcar should have just a couple of trains per day. And sidewalks and bike paths should be almost non-existent since they are so rarely used. I am not supporting those arguments, but they use the exact same logic.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

That's not an argument that will work. By that logic, MARTA should run only as many trains as it takes to fill up cars. The streetcar should have just a couple of trains per day. And sidewalks and bike paths should be almost non-existent since they are so rarely used. I am not supporting those arguments, but they use the exact same logic.

Not necessarily. For services that experience peak demand they respond by either increasing supply (MARTA), increasing price (HOT Lanes), or both (Uber).

After all, MARTA runs trains and buses more frequently during peak times, and even increases the lengths of trains during these times too. When the Streetcar grows and reaches a point where it experiences proper demand times, it will likely increase train sizes, and frequencies as well.


A standard roadway can't do that, it can't dynamically respond to demand, and so you're left with a bunch of space dedicated to a few times during the day. What could that space be used for otherwise? How much could the various governments save by not having to maintain the larger roads?

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Not necessarily. For services that experience peak demand they respond by either increasing supply (MARTA), increasing price (HOT Lanes), or both (Uber).

After all, MARTA runs trains and buses more frequently during peak times, and even increases the lengths of trains during these times too. When the Streetcar grows and reaches a point where it experiences proper demand times, it will likely increase train sizes, and frequencies as well.


A standard roadway can't do that, it can't dynamically respond to demand, and so you're left with a bunch of space dedicated to a few times during the day. What could that space be used for otherwise? How much could the various governments save by not having to maintain the larger roads?

When the rails aren't being used, they are taking up the same space. And you can cross a road, but not a Marta track.

I notice that you didn't respond to sidewalks and bike lanes.

Again, I don't think we should remove sidewalks and bike lanes, but let's not pretend that their capacity is used anywhere near the amount as that of roads.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by MattCW

"far out?" You mean people that live just a half a mile away that will be affected by this? But frankly, yes.

You think people who by their own free will choose to live along a major thoroughfare are entitled to tell the people that use it what they should do?

That's like those people who move in next to an airport then whine about the noise.

If it's the community decision it's the community decision

To the bold yes, yes and yes it's there community

People who live in the community who drive will be affect less by this because if it's local they are already in close proximity.

The people who will have more issue with this are the people traveling distances.

The problem is people who live away from community think their entitle to tell another community to be less walkable and have wide roads so they can drive through. Again it highlight the issues with sprawl the whole frame of thinking. People move further out and want the neighborhoods in ward along their commute to be bypasses and not a neighborhood.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

When the rails aren't being used, they are taking up the same space. And you can cross a road, but not a Marta track.

Yet MARTA tracks (and transit ways in general) are a good bit more narrow than their equivalent amount of capacity in roadways.

You can cross a large road in prescribed places, just as you can cross MARTA tracks in prescribed places. Sure you can try and cross mid-section on a road, but I wouldn't suggest it, looking at Buford.

I notice that you didn't respond to sidewalks and bike lanes.

Again, I don't think we should remove sidewalks and bike lanes, but let's not pretend that their capacity is used anywhere near the amount as that of roads.

One would point out that the development patterns that make cars the better option, are rather directly opposed to those which make walking and biking a practical alternative. That is despite sidewalks and bikeways having the potential to drastically outperform roads in people moved per hour.

[arjay57]

There was a report of a cyclist being killed in Avondale just recently, although he apparently collided with another cyclist.

Still, there is a need for safe bicycle routes over there and elsewhere.

[cwkimbro]

I'm out of town and limited to my phone so it's hard for me to getting specifics.

But some of y'all are being unfair to Matt in your arguments.

You're twisting arguments to draw larger gaps between ideas that don't need to exist.

Yes, some of our roadways are very pedestrian unfriendly and it needs to be fixed.

Some roads were made between town centers and some through and some were designed when people couldn't Invision much development much less pedestrians.

Ultimately, a road can be kept 4 lanes and not be an anti-pedestrian Buford hwy between town centers.

A road can be kept 4 travel lanes and developed through a town properly.


This weird concept that everything becomes a small 2 lane road, is urban, and we can ignore the other massive connection problems in n our arterial road network remains weird.

This isn't an urban issue, it's a nimby one. This is no longer a pro urban forum, as much as a nimby one.

We're a major city, there will be multi-lane roads. We can change them and make them safer for pedestrians.

But it's unfair to follow up Matt's concerns regarding traffic numbers and concerns of lack of turn lanes to the design and paint the situation as the creation of a Buford hwy.

Now further east if town 278 needs a lot of work, but it doesn't mean it has to be a 2 lane street to be safe.

We have alot of low density neighborhoods, people need to pass through them too.

[jsvh]

Glad to see GDOT changing its mind here.

All the evidence points to the reality that reducing lanes like this does not have not have a serious negative impact on traffic in the area. In fact, it is often a benefit to total traffic volumes in the area.

However, the improvements in safety and quality of life in that area should take priority anyways. Neighboring Decatur has already seen a lot of benefits of reducing lanes in their downtown bring improvement in traffic, safety, and quality of life. Not to mention that there is already a heavy rail transit line running right next to it with all the capacity that corridor could need.

[toll_booth]

I love how some of our resident conservatives are coming out firmly against local control.

Avondale Estates has every right to keep its residents safe with this road diet. Commuters who don't like that are more than welcome to find an alternative route.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

I love how some of our resident conservatives are coming out firmly against local control.

Avondale Estates has every right to keep its residents safe with this road diet. Commuters who don't like that are more than welcome to find an alternative route.

Its a state highway, not a local road. There's a difference.

I think Decatur's bike lanes on Commerce are a mistake, but they are well within their rights to do it. 278 is a state highway connecting various areas, not just a local Avondale Estates street.