Will Gwinnett County join MARTA? Not likely, officials say (Atlanta: 2015, taxi)

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It is stunning that these people don't realize how close to disaster they are. They may have the best parks system in the country and award winning schools and explosive growth, but without MARTA it's as hollow as an empty tin can.

That wasn't what I was talking about. Besides, it's also easy to have all that at the moment, but the sneaky issue of the GPS is that it's a long term problem. It's an issue that works on the generational scale.

For example, the town that I'm currently living in is currently solvent. They are able to continue functioning fairly well, maintaining most services, decent parks, a large airport supporting a lot of aerospace industry, and having a balanced budget.

That said, when you look at the long term infrastructure obligations, things start to look a bit worse. The city already has a fairly large backlog of road maintenance, which a recent special purpose gas tax is helping, but not keeping with. If you add up the lifetime costs of all the roads, maintenance and replacement, you see that the city needs to be dedicating a full 30% of its tax revenue towards just roads to handle only what it has. I know this, because I did the math. I even met with the city manager about it, and he both agreed and vouched for what I'd calculated.

Things get even worse when considering the needs of the various city departments, particularly the water department and its own internal budget shortfalls compared to maintenance backlogs.

This is not an issue that is unique to where I am. It is a wide-spread problem that affects massive-swaths of our nation, if not the wide-majority of it. The problem isn't even just about how much taxes are in place, it's a core problem with car-centric development problems. Even 'blighted' density is more valuable than brand-new sprawl, while also enabling far more trips to be completed with fewer trips.

Functional transit isn't a cure-all, no. Neither is density. They are, however, necessary to break past the threshold of fiscal sustainability for areas of large populations, which Gwinnett is.

This is not an opinion. This is measurable, quantifiable reality.

[SEAandATL]

Originally Posted by primaltech

This could be feasible for some kind of passenger commuter rail service, but not for local bus transit and such.

That's what I was saying, even though bus service that connects to the stations can be owned by the same company.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

That wasn't what I was talking about. Besides, it's also easy to have all that at the moment, but the sneaky issue of the GPS is that it's a long term problem. It's an issue that works on the generational scale.

For example, the town that I'm currently living in is currently solvent. They are able to continue functioning fairly well, maintaining most services, decent parks, a large airport supporting a lot of aerospace industry, and having a balanced budget.

That said, when you look at the long term infrastructure obligations, things start to look a bit worse. The city already has a fairly large backlog of road maintenance, which a recent special purpose gas tax is helping, but not keeping with. If you add up the lifetime costs of all the roads, maintenance and replacement, you see that the city needs to be dedicating a full 30% of its tax revenue towards just roads to handle only what it has. I know this, because I did the math. I even met with the city manager about it, and he both agreed and vouched for what I'd calculated.

Things get even worse when considering the needs of the various city departments, particularly the water department and its own internal budget shortfalls compared to maintenance backlogs.

This is not an issue that is unique to where I am. It is a wide-spread problem that affects massive-swaths of our nation, if not the wide-majority of it. The problem isn't even just about how much taxes are in place, it's a core problem with car-centric development problems. Even 'blighted' density is more valuable than brand-new sprawl, while also enabling far more trips to be completed with fewer trips.

Functional transit isn't a cure-all, no. Neither is density. They are, however, necessary to break past the threshold of fiscal sustainability for areas of large populations, which Gwinnett is.

This is not an opinion. This is measurable, quantifiable reality.

You make some great points, fourthwarden.

I wonder how we'll ever get a million Gwinnettians to turn around and head their lives in the opposite direction?

[fieldm]

I'm on 75 south in Cobb now at 10:30am and it's still backed up

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by fieldm

I'm on 75 south in Cobb now at 10:30am and it's still backed up

Cobb County Commissioners:

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Sorry, I also see one more possibility: 4) The laws are changed so that limited parts of Cobb/Gwinnett can join MARTA, instead of the whole county. As in, Cumberland CID/ Six Flags CID, Gwinnett Village CID, Gwinnett Place CID. Maybe the city of Peachtree Corners.

That is already possible. I can find the specifics of it but the state made it possible a few years ago for Marta to extend service outside of its jurisdiction without that entire county having to join Marta. Honestly, trying to find ways to appease the backwards, parochial, race-based thinking that has held this region back for decades is the wrong approach. That mentality just needs to die.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

That is already possible. I can find the specifics of it but the state made it possible a few years ago for Marta to extend service outside of its jurisdiction without that entire county having to join Marta.

Really?

If so, then that is the approach that should be taken, because the inner and south parts of Cobb and Gwinnett are definitely interested in joining MARTA. The real MARTA, as it is. And as it looks.

They should do what they did with the original conception of MARTA, but on a smaller scale. In the original idea, all the 5 counties were going to collectively vote yay or nay for MARTA in all the 5 counties. Then that was changed to each county voting for just itself to join or not.

Similarly, they should split Cobb and Gwinnett each into 5 chunks of territory, and those 10 areas can each choose to join or not join. (With the assumption that it would be unlikely that a farther out area would join, but a closer-in area would not.)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Really?

If so, then that is the approach that should be taken, because the inner and south parts of Cobb and Gwinnett are definitely interested in joining MARTA. The real MARTA, as it is. And as it looks.

They should do what they did with the original conception of MARTA, but on a smaller scale. In the original idea, all the 5 counties were going to collectively vote yay or nay for MARTA in all the 5 counties. Then that was changed to each county voting for just itself to join or not.

Similarly, they should split Cobb and Gwinnett each into 5 chunks of territory, and those 10 areas can each choose to join or not join. (With the assumption that it would be unlikely that a farther out area would join, but a closer-in area would not.)

Both Cumberland and South Cobb have MARTA bus service, multi-jurisdictional agreement. I am not sure if the same can be done for high-capacity transit routes.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fieldm

I'm on 75 south in Cobb now at 10:30am and it's still backed up

Ever been on 75/85 N at 10 am in Atlanta where it wasn't backed up?

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Both Cumberland and South Cobb have MARTA bus service, multi-jurisdictional agreement. I am not sure if the same can be done for high-capacity transit routes.

Those CID's would likely need to join the MARTA service area on a permanent basis for that, with a permanent MARTA tax set up for it. (Of some kind. Maybe it could be property tax, a sales tax, combo of each, or whatever.)

Gwinnett could maybe have a similar deal, with the Gwinnett Village and Gwinnett Place CID's allowing MARTA service along the I-85 corridor, but other parts of the county would not get service.

Peachtree Corners is really a critical area to join MARTA, as MARTA can't properly serve Johns Creek without it.