Drive-thrus and urbanism (Atlanta: home, neighborhood, restaurants)

[arjay57]

I have to admit they can come in handy. And I guess they do cut down on parking -- you don't have to stop, park and get out of your car. On the other hand, they are not that attractive.

ThreadATL has a great post critiquing the new Chick-Fil-A setup in Vine City.

Chick-fil-A in Vine City shows the need for re-thinking parking

However, he also links to a more urban drive thru out west.

Drive-Throughs & Walkable Communities: Can they Coexist | Modern Cities

What could we do to make these things better? In some of the SPI's they are not allowed on primary streets and are required to be interior to the parking decks. Does that help?

[jsvh]

Yes, things like drive-thrus inside of parking decks help.

The main harm from parking decks is additional curb cuts and reduced active street activity. It helps with that. There are still issues with it attracting more vehicle traffic than locations without a drive thru. But I don't think all drive thru should be prohibited if they can be done right.

[Iconographer]

I've never understood drive-thrus. What are you, rootbound to the car seat?

[samiwas1]

is the restaurant and its parking lot really taking up that entire lot? Seems pretty big. But the land has been vacant for years and it's gotta be cheaper land. If it was prime for urban use, someone would have likely done it by now. But, it is next to MARTA, so there's that.

But anyway, Chik-Fil-As typically have a pretty large draw, so they do need to accommodate their customers. I would
Like to see the actual overhead view of the property and how it is being used. The rendering doesn't give the full picture.

But there is one thing I noticed while reading through these links: note the different writing styles in the threadATL link and the Modern Cities link at the end of the threadATL link. The urbanists around here could take some pointers from the Modern Cities writer into how to get people to listen to you. The threadATL writer comes across as just another angry, anti-vehicle, urban die-hard (and he uses the term "urban fabric" non-ironically) like several on this forum. The Modern Cities writer, on the other hand, talks about how walkable and auto-centered uses should co-exist and how we can work together to come up with the best design for both. THAT is how you get people on your side.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by Iconographer

I've never understood drive-thrus. What are you, rootbound to the car seat?

No, but when you want to pick up a quick bite on the way home from work, parking, walking in, waiting, then getting back to the car and on your way is a bit more effort than just pulling in, grabbing food, and going on your way.

[ATLTJL]

Chick-fil-A is a unique animal. I like it, but I actually stopped going because the drive thru is so chaotic. They keep it moving fast, but it's just stressful waiting in a huge line that wraps around the building. You have to be really careful with Chick-fil-A, if it doesn't have a ton of space for the drive-thru, it will definitely spill out into the street and cause a nightmare. I'd be for banning the drive-thru in Chick-fil-A case because every single one of them causes massive gridlock around the building during lunch time.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

No, but when you want to pick up a quick bite on the way home from work, parking, walking in, waiting, then getting back to the car and on your way is a bit more effort than just pulling in, grabbing food, and going on your way.

And God forbid they get your order wrong or tell you to pull into a parking space when it's taking too long. That simply never happens.

[arjay57]

I may be wrong but it seems to me that most restaurants give priority to the drive thru. Many a time I have stopped and walked into some fast food joint and had to stand there waiting for my order to be filled while they were hustling to take care of the drive thrus. You would think you would get some brownie points for walking in, but no.

A few time I've even left, gotten in my car and done the drive thru, because the inside service seemed to be demoted.

[cwkimbro]

Well I tend to confuse alot of people, because I won't take a firm stance of being for a drive thru or against a drive thu.

They have their place.

The issue with how I feel about drive-thrus has more to do with where they are and that is far more nuanced than inside the city or not or ITP/OTP.

Drive thrus actually can allow for a higher turnover of customers, while lowering the need for a certain amount of parking spaces in an place where people are going to drive to reach the restaurant. The drive-thru can get the car in and out of the parking lot faster than if people parked, went inside, ordered and left... at least on average. There are always those moments where no one is waiting inside and there is a long line outside.

There are also types of restaurants where 60-80% of their customers ultimately ordering via drive-thru. With limited space and a push for less parking, these can be beneficial in transitional spaces. The restaurant needs less parking and shared space for cars to queue up. These restaurants design themselves to get cars in and out as fast as possible.


But somewhere we have to draw a line about where we have a neighborhood where all its residents can realistically access enough restaurants easily on foot or via other means if they are common-use for that community.

There are large parts of the city and ITP that are not this way. There are key areas that are and there are some transitional in-betweens

I wouldn't allow any new drive-thrus in Midtown or downtown. They are more than fine being pushed out to the periphery of "old town" pre-auto Atlanta, closely mirrored to inside the Beltline. If spread out enough, those are in driving distance of those inside that area that need to drive to a restaurant.

The problem spots for possible use are going to be places like Lindbergh. It is outside of the area that is old town Atlanta. Over time it could transition into something more, but the area is very auto-centric and most commercial development is limited to that one large area.

Now being inside the parking deck of these larger semi-new urbanism hide-the-big-box developments, I don't see them causing any problems.

Now anywhere we allow drive-thrus, they must be constructed in a way they do not back-up the roads around them. There is a problem where people think it is acceptable to back-up a road when someone wants to get in line for a hamburger.

This has been a problem with Chik-fil-as all over town in the past. Chik-fil-a came up with that design where the cars can wrap around the restaurant 360 degrees to get the longest line in the most compact space. They also hire people at peak periods and their busier restaurants to take orders from cars that are 10 deep in line. In these cases the line moves very quick increasing car-oriented restaurant access, while decreasing space used.


I also agree with JSVH about curb cuts. We can't allow additional curb cuts just for drive thrus. This was a huge problem with developments from the '50s into the '80s. It became an issue with the Varsity over the old Varsity Jr. They accused the city of being anti-business and moved to the suburbs. Ironically and unrealized by them, they moved the restaurant into a suburban development that had the same curb-cut access controls the city was trying to implement/retrofit.

They had wanted 2 curb cuts for their parking lot, a curb cut for the drive thru entrance (separated from their parking lot), and a 4th curb cut for the drive thru exit. Essentially there was no sidewalk in front of the store on Lindbergh... well maybe 5 or 10 feet here and there.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by Iconographer

And God forbid they get your order wrong or tell you to pull into a parking space when it's taking too long. That simply never happens.

Maybe a couple of times a year at most. I never check my order, even if I pick it up inside and take it back to my car, so what's the difference?