Nearly $2B in public incentives to develop Gulch? (Sandy Springs, East Point: neighborhood, good schools)

[AcidSnake]

Originally Posted by Iconographer

It also is my impression that local news publications often neglect reporting opposition POVs when reporting on business development issues. I could only find one news outlet (WSB) that even bothered to include a statement from any City Council member while covering the Gulch news conference.
There seems to be a widening divide in his town between the interests of the business community and the citizenry.

Great point.

I am wondering whether or not the Atlanta taxpayer will get their money back and then some from the CIM-lead development.

As it stands, I am leery of Private Equity firms as a rule of thumb anyways...thanks to how they massively screwed-up the housing market for working class Georgians and Americans...for many years, if not decades to come.

How did Duluth benefit from luring NCR to their city...before NCR ended up jump-ship for midtown Atlanta?

And for that matter, what is midtown Atlanta getting out of the ship-jump?

I never got a decent answer for that one.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

Great point.

I am wondering whether or not the Atlanta taxpayer will get their money back and then some from the CIM-lead development.

As it stands, I am leery of Private Equity firms as a rule of thumb anyways...thanks to how they massively screwed-up the housing market for working class Georgians and Americans...for many years, if not decades to come.

How did Duluth benefit from luring NCR to their city...before NCR ended up jump-ship for midtown Atlanta?

And for that matter, what is midtown Atlanta getting out of the ship-jump?

I never got a decent answer for that one.

Pretty absurd that the metro is bidding against itself.

[arjay57]

No doubt there is much celebration in the Laughing Room.

[cqholt]

The City also claims that there will be a $28 million investment by CIM into a citywide Affordable Housing Trust Fund. Seeing as this development will involve $5 billion of financing (with $2 billion in public sources of funding), it must be pointed out that $28 million is 0.56% of the total investment.

[IMG]https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1200/1*7ik3Y98Mjy9nUjhH0fSirQ.jpeg[/IMG]
https://medium.com/@kathrynlaurel123...a-2ae601be4826

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by cqholt

https://medium.com/@kathrynlaurel123...a-2ae601be4826

One thing I take a little issue with in this article:

"While 30% AMI ($422 1BR) is a much more realistically affordable figure, 10% of the units at that rate is simply not enough. Furthermore, all of these figures should include incomes within a spectrum of 0–30% AMI, (less than $422) to be more inclusive of all levels."

Yes..we need affordable housing. But to expect to have 1 bedroom apartment in the direct core of a major downtown in the very center of a huge new development for under $400 a month in rent is simply unrealistic, unless we're talking about micro apartments stacked into very basic buildings.

$28 million could put $500 per month towards rent for over 4,500 households for year.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

One thing I take a little issue with in this article:

"While 30% AMI ($422 1BR) is a much more realistically affordable figure, 10% of the units at that rate is simply not enough. Furthermore, all of these figures should include incomes within a spectrum of 0–30% AMI, (less than $422) to be more inclusive of all levels."

Yes..we need affordable housing. But to expect to have 1 bedroom apartment in the direct core of a major downtown in the very center of a huge new development for under $400 a month in rent is simply unrealistic, unless we're talking about micro apartments stacked into very basic buildings.

$28 million could put $500 per month towards rent for over 4,500 households for year.

And you could really do a lot with $2 billion.

This is simply gutting future city revenue. CIM isn't going to build anything (except maybe the inexpensive apartments) that wouldn't be built anyway. Building it does not create demand. And any dense development of this sort is going to be around 285 or closer in. Its going to be Cumberland Galleria, Perimeter, Brookhaven or city of Atlanta. Atlanta metro's gifts to developers are just that. Gifts to developers.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by bu2

And you could really do a lot with $2 billion.

Yes you could. But, is the city giving them $2 billion, or just not getting money that they probably wouldn't get anyway? I again bring up the film credits. Do you believe that I would be making enough money to be paying around $30,000 in taxes this year either way, or did the industry getting a credit bring jobs that pay me and many others enough money to offset the loss in revenue they wouldn't have gotten in the first place (Hint: Not even close).

This is simply gutting future city revenue. CIM isn't going to build anything (except maybe the inexpensive apartments) that wouldn't be built anyway.

That's a pretty big assumption. That area has sat dormant for decades and decades. There's no guarantee that the area would get filled with a massive development either way.

Building it does not create demand.

Wait...there's no induced demand?!?

And any dense development of this sort is going to be around 285 or closer in. Its going to be Cumberland Galleria, Perimeter, Brookhaven or city of Atlanta. Atlanta metro's gifts to developers are just that. Gifts to developers.

True. I think this incentive is way high, and I have no doubt that there is collusion and kickbacks going on. But the reality of (American) business these days is that they go where the incentives are. We've created a monster that needs to be fed.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

One thing I take a little issue with in this article:

"While 30% AMI ($422 1BR) is a much more realistically affordable figure, 10% of the units at that rate is simply not enough. Furthermore, all of these figures should include incomes within a spectrum of 0–30% AMI, (less than $422) to be more inclusive of all levels."

Yes..we need affordable housing. But to expect to have 1 bedroom apartment in the direct core of a major downtown in the very center of a huge new development for under $400 a month in rent is simply unrealistic, unless we're talking about micro apartments stacked into very basic buildings.

$28 million could put $500 per month towards rent for over 4,500 households for year.

If the entire development consisted of these prices, then yes, but it is not unrealistic to think this HUGE development can have all levels of income incorporated into it. Capital Gateway, Ashley at Auburn, Centennial Place are all Downtown and have all-levels of income incorporated into them.

[brown_dog_us]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

Wait...there's no induced demand?!?

I know you're being sarcastic, but something like Amazon HQ2 could create induced demand. The current Gulch plan would slide the epicenter of white collar jobs South a bit. That slide could lead to gentrification on the South half of the Metro. That's not new demand, but it would have a profound impact on the area.

[citidata18]

Originally Posted by brown_dog_us

I know you're being sarcastic, but something like Amazon HQ2 could create induced demand. The current Gulch plan would slide the epicenter of white collar jobs South a bit. That slide could lead to gentrification on the South half of the Metro. That's not new demand, but it would have a profound impact on the area.

But I also can't see that happening without something on the scale of HQ2 happening.