Midtown Atlanta growth and development since 2010 (section 8, real estate market, rent)

[dtyfygiu]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

What I'm upset with is the parking that's coming with all the new residential development, and the focus on luxury-only apartments. The subway line only goes so many places in Atlanta. They are just moving in more people who have the luxury not to take the train.

The development in midtown has not been for people who live in the city, it's been exclusively for rich suburbanites who want an "urban destination" to go to— meanwhile, the people who these devlopments have displaced now live far, far away from the train lines in ramshackled apartment complexes scattered all over the metro.

Old school intown residents lives weren't improved by any of this development, they were just moved away. Meanwhile the new midtown residents drive and the train ridership has gone down.

It's insane. Midtown has multiple MARTA stations (5) and is easily the most dense and transit friendly neighborhood in the city, yet the parking ratios match those of suburbia. Is Atlanta an oversized suburb? New Midtown tower, 170 apartments, 315 parking spaces.


https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/m...-toll-brothers


18 stories of garaged parking, almost 1100 spaces in the most dense, transit friendly neighborhood in the city.
https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/m...pment-downtown



You would never see this in Seattle or Chicago. Even LA is cracking down on massive parking and enacting TOD's everywhere and they have worse sprawl than Atlanta. Is MARTA useless?

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by chiatldal

My question why does that matter? How does Miami have larger Caribbean population makes it less "Southern". Even with that Atlanta is still much closer to Miami culturally then it is Vicksburg MS.

The problem with this the exemption creates the exemption. What I mean is I been on City data for a while so I seen this southern debate many times, I seen threads that FL, TX, Ok, LA, VA even NC being argue as not Southern enough. Which is Ironic because if you add the population together that's over 2/3 of the South population. Which means what ever people are trying to define the South as stereotypical is actually in the minority. And what they removing is actually the majority. States like MS and AL what people use as example of most Southern states actually are among the least populated states in the south. Meanwhile 4 of 5 the South most populated states are being debate as the south or not. Basically people strip the South from the South, then argue such place is different from the South after they strip the diversity of the South away.

I also don't like this because the South is the only region where people try to define it by how least cosmopolitan a place is. You don't hear blank is not Midwestern enough. So the question become why can't the south be cosmopolitan? and why can't what is southern can't grow and change?


but as far pedestrians in South Florida that has more to do with in being a large beach resort city then a cultural difference. The funny thing is if you look at development Miami is actually develop way more Car Orient than the core of Atlanta. The streets are wider and odd enough there actually less street level retail in Miami, they develop a lot of Condo building with these grand entrances drive ways. So it's not urban planning either it's literally just Miami is a beach city.

More traditional urbanity is New Orleans.

Excellent points and comments.

Metropolitan and cosmopolitan life (including urban life, suburban life and racial and ethnic diversity) is just as much an important part of the South and the Southern experience as the rural lifestyle most often is stereotyped as being.

Large and important parts of states like Georgia, Texas, Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, etc., shouldn’t be discounted or totally disqualified as being Southern just because they have urbanized and their populations have diversified with different races and ethnicities of people from all over the world.

It’s deeply disappointing to see Southerners themselves buy into the pervasive negative societal stereotype that being educated, diverse, prosperous and cosmopolitan somehow makes someone much less Southern and/or somehow totally disqualifies people and places from being Southern.

It’s as if Southern people and places stop being Southern once they become educated and experience economic success, increased diversity and cosmopolitan sophistication.

If places like Georgia, Texas, Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, etc., were considered “Southern” when they were looked down upon by the rest of society as isolated rural backwaters full of uneducated ignorant hillbillies, then they most certainly can still be “Southern” now that they are experiencing widespread economic success, prosperity, urbanization, racial and ethnic diversification, and increased international profiles.

[demonta4]

Originally Posted by dtyfygiu

It's insane. Midtown has multiple MARTA stations (5) and is easily the most dense and transit friendly neighborhood in the city, yet the parking ratios match those of suburbia. Is Atlanta an oversized suburb? New Midtown tower, 170 apartments, 315 parking spaces.


https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/m...-toll-brothers


18 stories of garaged parking, almost 1100 spaces in the most dense, transit friendly neighborhood in the city.
https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/m...pment-downtown



You would never see this in Seattle or Chicago. Even LA is cracking down on massive parking and enacting TOD's everywhere and they have worse sprawl than Atlanta. Is MARTA useless?

Midtown doesn't have parking minimums. If developers and financiers feel they need to include parking they'll continue to. It'll end when we've developed enough and expanded transit (especially along the beltline as it's one of the most vibrant areas of the city right now). I also don't see how these podiums are destroying street life. Every building I know of with parking builds retail into the structure. We have extensively more street-facing retail than our southern peers.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by dtyfygiu

It's insane. Midtown has multiple MARTA stations (5) and is easily the most dense and transit friendly neighborhood in the city, yet the parking ratios match those of suburbia. Is Atlanta an oversized suburb? New Midtown tower, 170 apartments, 315 parking spaces.

Wrong. Midtown has 3 stations: Arts Center, Midtown and North Avenue. And there wouldn't be any leasing of the new apartments or office buildings without parking, tenants demand it. We don't have the robust transit to support all of this development without parking.

https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/m...-toll-brothers


18 stories of garaged parking, almost 1100 spaces in the most dense, transit friendly neighborhood in the city.
https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/m...pment-downtown



You would never see this in Seattle or Chicago. Even LA is cracking down on massive parking and enacting TOD's everywhere and they have worse sprawl than Atlanta. Is MARTA useless?

Wrong again. You won't see hardly any in Seattle, but Chicago has them all over. Guess you've never been to River North.

[primaltech]

No, Seattle has plenty of parking too, even downtown. But most of it is underground garages. There are also a ton of buildings with no parking, and there are almost no surface parking lots to speak of, and minimal above ground decks. I don't think I've encountered any parking yet that I thought was ugly or too much. I love that about Seattle.

If all of Downtown/Midtown ATL's parking were in underground garages below buildings (not free-standing), then that would be totally fine, and 100% better than the current situation. To me it's not so much the amount of parking spaces, but how they take away from a dense urban area that should be human scale.

If you took away every free-standing parking deck or lot in Downtown/Midtown, you could double the amount of actual places. Half of the area of that whole urban space is just car storage. That to me is the main issue that hurts the vibrancy/walkability and pedestrianism and urbanism of Atlanta, and takes away from the potential of transit there.

[primaltech]

Like, this stand-alone deck for Google/other tech offices in that building, is across the street from Midtown MARTA station:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7824...7i16384!8i8192

I don't object to that adjacent building having that much parking, but it should be under the surface. That prime real estate is being wasted, and that's what really hurts the potential of the area and the city (and MARTA).

And also the street widths (mostly too wide) and sidewalk widths (mostly not wide/inviting enough).

[JMatl]

Underground parking is here where they can do it (Colony Square), but we sit on solid granite. If the granite is too close to the surface, it's cost prohibitive.

[Smocaine]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

What I'm upset with is the parking that's coming with all the new residential development, and the focus on luxury-only apartments. The subway line only goes so many places in Atlanta. They are just moving in more people who have the luxury not to take the train.

The development in midtown has not been for people who live in the city, it's been exclusively for rich suburbanites who want an "urban destination" to go to— meanwhile, the people who these devlopments have displaced now live far, far away from the train lines in ramshackled apartment complexes scattered all over the metro.

Old school intown residents lives weren't improved by any of this development, they were just moved away. Meanwhile the new midtown residents drive and the train ridership has gone down.

Welcome to the realities of economics. Would you buy expensive land just to put a terrible, small apartment building for low-income people on it?

[ShenardL]

Originally Posted by Smocaine

Welcome to the realities of economics. Would you buy expensive land just to put a terrible, small apartment building for low-income people on it?

https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/d...ook-apartments

[Smocaine]

Originally Posted by ShenardL

https://urbanize.city/atlanta/post/d...ook-apartments

Wait, what? $672 for a new-construction 3-bedroom apartment in Downtown?
Is there more to this story? That is unthinkable. That's like reading an article about a guy just casually selling 1-kg gold bars for $10. Like, there's obviously a catch here. Even $970 for the mid-range apartments is unbelievably low. Will you have to go through a special application process to live there or something? That's not just 'affordable', that's like a 60-80% discount over normal rates, to the point that you have to seriously think about what kind of people will live there and how the building will function with them (I have a feeling there will be a lot of 2am-on-a-weeknight parties and yelling with a dash of major pest control problems).


I mean, I'm theoretically open to it, I guess, but this feels like a rehash of post-war housing projects and we saw how that went. It's not affordable housing at that point, it's just subsidized housing; public money is clearly involved somewhere along the line if I'm seeing a $672 3-bedroom apartment. I'm a big believer in cheapening housing naturally through new construction at market rates rather than trying to force it with subsidized rents, and I can say I'm extremely surprised to see that this project is happening in Atlanta.