Controversial school rezoning for Midtown advances despite protests (Atlanta: fit in, buy)

[Atlanta-Native]

Originally Posted by equinox63

APS Rezoning Scenario Maps

I know the proposed Washington Cluster plans will really have “West Midtown” parents in their feelings. But in my opinion, it is one of the only ways to level the playing field.

APS Facilities Master Plan

I'm not familiar with the Washington cluster, but in general, if you have a low performing school and a high performing school and then mix them together (or by rezoning) to "level the playing field", aren't you really just helping the kids on the lower end and negatively affecting the kids on the higher end?

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by Atlanta-Native

I'm not familiar with the Washington cluster, but in general, if you have a low performing school and a high performing school and then mix them together (or by rezoning) to "level the playing field", aren't you really just helping the kids on the lower end and negatively affecting the kids on the higher end?

How are the kids on the higher end negatively affected?

[Atlanta-Native]

Originally Posted by equinox63

How are the kids on the higher end negatively affected?

Because now the teacher is having to spend so much time working with the kids on the low end.

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by Atlanta-Native

Because now the teacher is having to spend so much time working with the kids on the low end.

Good teachers know how to differentiate. And if the levels are that far apart, certain kids would be placed in more advanced classes, some in general classes, and students that are performing extra low would be in remedial classes. Either way, the students on the higher end would still be fine. Especially if their families can afford tutors, and additional resources, etc.

[Atlanta-Native]

Originally Posted by equinox63

Good teachers know how to differentiate. And if the levels are that far apart, certain kids would be placed in more advanced classes, some in general classes, and students that are performing extra low would be in remedial classes. Either way, the students on the higher end would still be fine. Especially if their families can afford tutors, and additional resources, etc.

So now we are saying that higher end students will be "fine" because they will now need tutors? Should they have to get tutors, just because they can afford them? That doesn't make much sense.

Also, if you have a bunch of kids on the low end, how are you going to facilitate all of them and their need to be in a remedial class? You can't. So the schools will have to make due with the teachers they have and you will have a bunch of kids mixed together and the one's on the high end will suffer. These schools are so worried about test scores, that they feel the need to spend more time on the kids on the lower end, which obviously affects all the other students.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by bu2

Basically the SPARK parents want to keep their kids together and so want to impose a long term mess (IMO) by splitting elementary schools into two parts so their kids can stay together for the next 2 to 5 years.

This.

Short-term thinking/convenience/selfishness for a long-term mess.

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by Atlanta-Native

So now we are saying that higher end students will be "fine" because they will now need tutors? Should they have to get tutors, just because they can afford them? That doesn't make much sense.

Also, if you have a bunch of kids on the low end, how are you going to facilitate all of them and their need to be in a remedial class? You can't. So the schools will have to make due with the teachers they have and you will have a bunch of kids mixed together and the one's on the high end will suffer. These schools are so worried about test scores, that they feel the need to spend more time on the kids on the lower end, which obviously affects all the other students.

Okay, now we are once again stepping into territory that I know quite a bit about. I really can't say how things go in Gwinnett or Fulton. But I can definitely speak on what I know regarding APS.

1. There is no comparison. There is no other district in the state of Georgia like APS. So some of the things that you may have seen or heard about other places may not apply here.

2. There are levels. Even at the worst schools, "everybody" isn't remedial. Generally, it is more like a third low-performing, a third average, and a third higher-performing (as long as the opportunity is there). Really low kids would be in remedial classes. Average to above-average kids would be geared toward general and higher-level courses. Average students in higher-level class can (and often do) rise to the occasion when the opportunity is there. Whenever student enrollment increases, schools are able to hire more qualified teachers to meet the needs of the student population. I can't speak to other districts, but APS has proven strategies to turn schools around as long as the community is active and on-board.

3. Lower-performing schools are more worried about test scores than high-performing schools? I don't think what you are saying is coming from a place of pessimism, per se. But I just don't think you have a firm grasp of what is really going on within APS schools addressing all of this.

It is possible to integrate a school without the negative consequences that you mentioned. But I think it is hard for you to envision because I think you view the students and teachers too simplistically. Lastly, parents of kids at the very best schools in the metro still hire tutors for their children. I didn't say they "had to". I'm just saying that the opportunity is there for some students and not others. That is more so a reflection of the parents' desires rather than a reflection of the school.

[Atlanta-Native]

Originally Posted by equinox63

Okay, now we are once again stepping into territory that I know quite a bit about. I really can't say how things go in Gwinnett or Fulton. But I can definitely speak on what I know regarding APS.

1. There is no comparison. There is no other district in the state of Georgia like APS. So some of the things that you may have seen or heard about other places may not apply here.

2. There are levels. Even at the worst schools, "everybody" isn't remedial. Generally, it is more like a third low-performing, a third average, and a third higher-performing (as long as the opportunity is there). Really low kids would be in remedial classes. Average to above-average kids would be geared toward general and higher-level courses. Average students in higher-level class can (and often do) rise to the occasion when the opportunity is there. Whenever student enrollment increases, schools are able to hire more qualified teachers to meet the needs of the student population. I can't speak to other districts, but APS has proven strategies to turn schools around as long as the community is active and on-board.

3. Lower-performing schools are more worried about test scores than high-performing schools? I don't think what you are saying is coming from a place of pessimism, per se. But I just don't think you have a firm grasp of what is really going on within APS schools addressing all of this.

It is possible to integrate a school without the negative consequences that you mentioned. But I think it is hard for you to envision because I think you view the students and teachers too simplistically. Lastly, parents of kids at the very best schools in the metro still hire tutors for their children. I didn't say they "had to". I'm just saying that the opportunity is there for some students and not others. That is more so a reflection of the parents' desires rather than a reflection of the school.

In theory, I don't disagree with you. I guess I'm confused when you say "level the playing field". How exactly do you mean that?

You bring up a great point when you said "as long as the community is active and on-board". That's a HUGE factor.

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by Atlanta-Native

In theory, I don't disagree with you. I guess I'm confused when you say "level the playing field". How exactly do you mean that?

I just mean that the poorest, most disadvantaged student in the school would technically have the same opportunities as the most affluent student in the school. A low-performing school that is struggling to keep the doors open and ensure the students have a hot meal isn't the same as a school with a wealth of opportunities for a more socioeconomically diverse population.

Educated and involved parents can successfully advocate for more rigorous/advanced classes as well a number of things that they would like for their children. So when a school reaps the benefits of an active and engaged parent-base, it provides the same opportunities for all students as long as it is promoted and encouraged for all students. But this takes planning a foresight. And I think this is something that parents who run away from their home schools want to skip/avoid.

Nevertheless, in this instance, my use of "leveling the playing field" is somewhat synonymous with "a rising tide lifts all boats".

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by Atlanta-Native

You bring up a great point when you said "as long as the community is active and on-board". That's a HUGE factor.

All it literally takes is a group of parents to just decide, "Let's do this!" And start working with their communities and schools -- especially in gentrifying areas of the city.