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Atlanta has been growing faster than Miami for decades.
It's debatable, but until the undocumented are counted, in which Miami has a lot, then I have to take the latest Census figures with a pinch of salt here. even though I do concede that both areas do have higher growth, albeit I don't agree with how very spread out the Atlanta CSA by adding over 40 counties from Augusta to parts of Alabama. Plus no common commuter rail system does make it a lot tougher to get to those places from Atlanta and back.
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Originally Posted by chiatldal
But You do understand regardless that Miami is building more apartments cities like Atlanta, Houston, Dallas are building amongst the highest amount of apartments right? So i don't know where this "just building mega mansions " idea came from.
Infact even the suburban area is part of New urbanism development.
It comes from the fact that since Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston are relatively cheaper due to the massive glut of land that those cities have in comparison to Miami, which can't grow the same way as the latter cities and have to develop madrases and highrises just to keep up with the growing population due to metro Miami being wedged between the Atlantic Ocean and the Everglades. It is what it is!
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Originally Posted by chiatldal
Atlanta water supply is not declining, tthe whole conflict is pollical. there was a drought that happen that was unusual because Atlanta is one of the rainiest part of the country. Anyways Florida, Alabama and Georgia got into a dispute with lake Lanier. The latest ruling in Georgia favor.
With Climate Change the rising sea level a can't believe you even mention water problems'.
experts say 60% of Miami could be under water by 2060... @ 5:37
OK, let's not hear about another drought in Atlanta again, and I mean it, but the fact that Miami will be completely underwater by 2060 is complete bull and you know it! If that were the case, then New Orleans won't exist anymore, as well as world cities that have lower elevations such as Rotterdam, Amsterdam, and Jakarta. Even parts of the eastern seaboard suck as Norfolk, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Newark, NYC, and Boston would have parts of their cities either underwater or in much greater danger of being flooded if Miami were to completely flood. I don't understand why people would wish these things to a city, but it's pretty stupid and selfish to wish a city gets flooded for whatever reason!
It's going to be a tough sell to bring an NHL team in Atlanta. Never said that Atlanta didn't deserve an NHL team, but losing two teams just isn't a good omen.
It seems like it may not be as tough of a sell as you think to bring an NHL team back to the Atlanta market.
That’s because after both times that an NHL franchise left the Atlanta market (in 1980 and 2011) the major corporate community in the Atlanta market has only continued to grow and balloon in size and stature and importance along with the size of the economy and the population in the Atlanta region.
Because of the large size of the major corporate community and the large amount of major corporate interests in the Atlanta region (and the many significant sponsorships that a major corporate community like Atlanta’s can generate), it potentially may not matter to NHL interests that two teams have relocated out of the Atlanta market in the past.
What matters (and probably the only thing that matters) to NHL interests is the money that they see being generated in an Atlanta market with a large and fast-growing population, a large and fast-growing economy, and easy and direct access to and from much of the rest of the North American continent via the world’s busiest airport at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport… It’s those robust intangibles that keep bringing the NHL back to the Atlanta market even if it seems like the Atlanta market may not deserve to have repeated chances to host/house an NHL franchise.
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Originally Posted by wanderer34
Plus, where will the visiting teams stay while they're in Atlanta? Will they stay in Atlanta or will they stay in Alpharetta? It's over an hour commute to Alpharetta from ATL and over 30 min to Alpharetta from downtown Atlanta with traffic.
Presumably, visiting NHL teams would stay in a large upscale hotel on the grounds of the large proposed mixed-use entertainment complex (likely the proposed The Gathering at South Forsyth development) where the potential future Atlanta NHL franchise would play its games in a hockey-specific arena.
And even beyond a likely large upscale hotel on the grounds of the potential future Atlanta NHL franchise’s hockey-specific home arena-anchored mixed-use entertainment complex, the Alpharetta area is not some small inconsequential suburban community but is a large, highly affluent and dominant regional hub of development that drives much of the economic and social activity in Atlanta’s suburban and exurban Northern Crescent. Because of its status as a dominant hub of economic and social activity, Alpharetta is home to numerous hotels that are more than large enough to host a visiting 20+ man NHL roster.
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Originally Posted by wanderer34
At least with the new Truist Park in Cumberland, it's close enough to Atlanta where you can at least extend the MARTA system to Cumberland. I haven't heard MARTA extending to Alpharetta anytime soon. For me, as a former Philadelphian, it's a benefit to having all four sports teams play at one corner (Broad and Pattison) in the best Sports Complex in the nation. The Braves used to play in the old Turner Field and have moved out to Truist Park.
It's a loss for the city of Atlanta and a gain for Cumberland/Cobb County, but I'm hoping area leaders can actually turn what was once a negative into a positive by extending MARTA to Cumberland.
Of course there obviously were a lot of hard feelings in the City of Atlanta about the Atlanta Braves leaving Turner Field in the City of Atlanta proper to move to their new stadium (Truist Park) and mixed-use development in the Cumberland area of Cobb County.
But the Braves’ move out of the CoA proper to Cumberland/Cobb County appears to have turned out to be a win-win for both the Braves organization and the City of Atlanta proper… With the Braves gaining an extremely robust stream of revenue from a large mixed-use entertainment complex in a suburban location in Cobb County that appeals very strongly and directly to their base of urban/inner-city averse suburban and exurban fans and the City of Atlanta proper gaining a long-desired redevelopment of the Summerhill neighborhood that formerly hosted the Braves… A Summerhill neighborhood redevelopment that includes an urban university like Georgia State University growing and expanding into the area and actively helping to spark the ongoing redevelopment of the Summerhill neighborhood in the absence of the Atlanta Braves from the area.
The prospects of MARTA heavy rail service being extended from Midtown Atlanta to Cumberland admittedly appear to be slim to none for the foreseeable future… But the lack of high-capacity transit service to the Truist Park/Battery development doesn’t really appear to hurt the Braves much because the Braves’ priority is appealing to a fanbase of deeply conservative suburbanites and exurbanites who not only could care less about transit but often strongly dislike and distrust transit as a legitimate form of transportation in an automobile-oriented (automobile-crazed) metro Atlanta/North Georgia region.
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Originally Posted by wanderer34
As for the Alpharetta arena, the fan base is there, but what about tourists who have to travel over 30 minutes (a little over an hour in some cases) from Atlanta to Alpharetta just to attend an NHL game?
Since there's no rail link to Alpharetta, it's a huge negative. Even the Anaheim Ducks and the NY Islanders have options for mass transit while Alpharetta has no such rail link. If there's no rail link to Alpharetta from Atlanta, then it's just another pie-in--the-sky proposal that I can't take seriously.
While the lack of a rail link to an area proposed to be the future host of an NHL team like Alpharetta understandably may seem like a negative to someone from a rail transit-heavy region like the Northeastern U.S., the lack of a rail link to Alpharetta isn’t really all that much of a huge negative in a highly transit-averse automobile-crazed Sun Belt metropolitan region like Atlanta and North Georgia.
City of Atlanta tourists most likely will just use a rideshare service (or take the MARTA Red Line train and transfer to a potential future local and/or express bus that runs for games if one really wants to use transit) to get to an NHL game in the proposed South Forsyth County location.
Though in a region that often can be as highly averse to transit as metro Atlanta and North Georgia, a suburban community like Alpharetta doesn’t really need a high-capacity transit link to potentially host an NHL team at this time because the main appeal of Alpharetta is that it is an upscale suburban community with a robust hockey community that anchors a very large and fast-growing pocket of wealth, affluence and economic activity for the suburban Southeast.
As Atlanta’s metropolitan population continues to explode on a limited transportation network, high-capacity transit expansion possibly may eventually become more of a priority in Atlanta’s booming Northern Crescent suburbs. But for now and for the foreseeable future, the lack of high-capacity transit expansion isn’t going to hold back a suburban community like Alpharetta because of the massive amount of wealth and affluence (including a large number of $100k median income households) and high-level economic activity (including an estimated roughly 800 tech companies) in the area.
OK, Atlanta has a higher GDP that Miami, but that proves little as to can Atlanta support an NHL team, and if so, where will they play? GDP has little to nothing to do with whether that metro area can support an NHL team, and if that's the case, then Houston, which has a higher GDP than Atlanta, doesn't have an NHL team. The SF-Oakland MSA, which has a much higher GDP than Atlanta, doesn't include San Jose (which is it's own MSA), where the Sharks play, and has a lower GDP than Atlanta, and other cities which have a much lower GDP than Atlanta are Detroit, Minneapolis, Denver, Tampa, and St Louis, and those areas have had successful NHL franchises and very supportive fanbases despite the lower GDP, so your retort make very little sense and it that were the case, then Phoenix, which has a much higher GDP than the aforementioned cities, would've been able to fully support an NHL w/o moving into an arena w/ the capacity of about 4K (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullett_Arena).
This is nothing more than mindless gibberish. And how disingenuous of you to suggest it doesn't matter. In Miami's 'shadow economy' that seems to be the norm, though. And of course Houston has a higher GDP than Atlanta, they are larger by more than a million people, LOL.
And in what universe does Phoenix have a higher GDP? Put down the bong, son.
This is nothing more than mindless gibberish. And how disingenuous of you to suggest it doesn't matter. In Miami's 'shadow economy' that seems to be the norm, though. And of course Houston has a higher GDP than Atlanta, they are larger by more than a million people, LOL.
And in what universe does Phoenix have a higher GDP? Put down the bong, son.
I'm assuming you didn't read the link, better yet, I'm assuming you're illiterate and I don't know whether you can type of are using a dictator on your computer when I said that Phoenix's GDP is higher than Cleveland's, Detroit's, and Minneapolis's GDP. It's not my list I made up and if you still have issues with the figures, then take that to Wikipedia and the Census Bureau, you dolt!
I mentioned Phoenix because they're having a tough time supporting an NHL team, and after moving out of their Glendale arena and trying to move into Mesa and Tempe, and ending up playing in a 4600 collegiate ice hockey arena doesn't make Phoenix an NHL city, regardless of how big it's population is, the number of companies HQed in Phoenix, and it's GDP is
It seems like it may not be as tough of a sell as you think to bring an NHL team back to the Atlanta market.
That’s because after both times that an NHL franchise left the Atlanta market (in 1980 and 2011) the major corporate community in the Atlanta market has only continued to grow and balloon in size and stature and importance along with the size of the economy and the population in the Atlanta region.
Because of the large size of the major corporate community and the large amount of major corporate interests in the Atlanta region (and the many significant sponsorships that a major corporate community like Atlanta’s can generate), it potentially may not matter to NHL interests that two teams have relocated out of the Atlanta market in the past.
What matters (and probably the only thing that matters) to NHL interests is the money that they see being generated in an Atlanta market with a large and fast-growing population, a large and fast-growing economy, and easy and direct access to and from much of the rest of the North American continent via the world’s busiest airport at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport… It’s those robust intangibles that keep bringing the NHL back to the Atlanta market even if it seems like the Atlanta market may not deserve to have repeated chances to host/house an NHL franchise.
The real question is who will travel to Alpharetta just to see the games. Will Atlantans make the 45-60 min trek to Alpharetta or will it be suburbanites from the north suburbs? It's bad enough that there's no commuter rail link from Atlanta to Alpharetta. Just having a booming population, over 10 Fortune 500 companies based in the city, and the busiest airport in the country isn't enough, just ask Houston, which has the same variables as Atlanta plus a ton of Fortune 500 companies with NY having much more than Houston, why they don't have their hockey team?
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Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll
Presumably, visiting NHL teams would stay in a large upscale hotel on the grounds of the large proposed mixed-use entertainment complex (likely the proposed The Gathering at South Forsyth development) where the potential future Atlanta NHL franchise would play its games in a hockey-specific arena.
And even beyond a likely large upscale hotel on the grounds of the potential future Atlanta NHL franchise’s hockey-specific home arena-anchored mixed-use entertainment complex, the Alpharetta area is not some small inconsequential suburban community but is a large, highly affluent and dominant regional hub of development that drives much of the economic and social activity in Atlanta’s suburban and exurban Northern Crescent. Because of its status as a dominant hub of economic and social activity, Alpharetta is home to numerous hotels that are more than large enough to host a visiting 20+ man NHL roster.
It makes no sense to have the city of Atlanta's name on your jerseys and play in a different locale. Just ask how SF is doing with Levi's stadium not nearby SF, but closer to San Jose, in the suburb of Santa Clara? Their early season games are some of the hottest in the league because Santa Clara is much closer in the Valley while SF has a micro climate in which it's known for having cold summers and cool winters, plus the wind gusts made it impossible to play there if you was an imposing team.
Also, the Washington Commanders have a harder time in Fedex Field than they had in old RFK stadium because there's no viable transportation links to get from DC to Fedex, and the LA (formerly Anaheim) Angels, have always had an inferiority complex to the point where they have to affix another city's name to their title even though the Angels don't play in LA.
If such a franchise plays in Alpharetta, then they should be better off using Georgia's name rather than Atlanta's even though Alpharetta is clearly a suburb of Atlanta. With the exception of the Dallas Cowboys, the New England Patriots, and the New York Giants (and the Jets), which play outside of their core city and have rail/mass transit links, I don't see how it works out with basing to team so far from the core city. At least Truist Park doesn't have this problem, since it's so close to the Atlanta city limits.
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Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll
Of course there obviously were a lot of hard feelings in the City of Atlanta about the Atlanta Braves leaving Turner Field in the City of Atlanta proper to move to their new stadium (Truist Park) and mixed-use development in the Cumberland area of Cobb County.
But the Braves’ move out of the CoA proper to Cumberland/Cobb County appears to have turned out to be a win-win for both the Braves organization and the City of Atlanta proper… With the Braves gaining an extremely robust stream of revenue from a large mixed-use entertainment complex in a suburban location in Cobb County that appeals very strongly and directly to their base of urban/inner-city averse suburban and exurban fans and the City of Atlanta proper gaining a long-desired redevelopment of the Summerhill neighborhood that formerly hosted the Braves… A Summerhill neighborhood redevelopment that includes an urban university like Georgia State University growing and expanding into the area and actively helping to spark the ongoing redevelopment of the Summerhill neighborhood in the absence of the Atlanta Braves from the area.
The prospects of MARTA heavy rail service being extended from Midtown Atlanta to Cumberland admittedly appear to be slim to none for the foreseeable future… But the lack of high-capacity transit service to the Truist Park/Battery development doesn’t really appear to hurt the Braves much because the Braves’ priority is appealing to a fanbase of deeply conservative suburbanites and exurbanites who not only could care less about transit but often strongly dislike and distrust transit as a legitimate form of transportation in an automobile-oriented (automobile-crazed) metro Atlanta/North Georgia region.
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Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll
While the lack of a rail link to an area proposed to be the future host of an NHL team like Alpharetta understandably may seem like a negative to someone from a rail transit-heavy region like the Northeastern U.S., the lack of a rail link to Alpharetta isn’t really all that much of a huge negative in a highly transit-averse automobile-crazed Sun Belt metropolitan region like Atlanta and North Georgia.
City of Atlanta tourists most likely will just use a rideshare service (or take the MARTA Red Line train and transfer to a potential future local and/or express bus that runs for games if one really wants to use transit) to get to an NHL game in the proposed South Forsyth County location.
It could be a bad move for MARTA, the Braves, and the state of GA to not consider extending to Cumberland from Atlanta in the long run. Most, if not all, MLB stadiums do have rail links at, or close by, their stadiums. Atlanta shouldn't be this exception. I'm pretty sure there are urban baseball fans as there are suburban fans, and Summerhill could've been Atlanta's version of Fenway, Camden Yards & Wrigleyville had they put a lot of energy in the area, but the Braves decided to invest in Cumberland, and I'm not mad at them now, but not having mass transit to Cumberland may hurt them in the near future, especially as the city of Atlanta continues to grow, and suburbs become less fashionable.
The Atlanta CSA has 16 counties in the Atlanta MSA, 4 in the Athens MSA, 2 in LaGrange GA-AL, and 1 each in Gainesville, Rome, Jefferson, Cornelia, Cedartown, Thomaston, and Toccoa MSAs. That's 29 total counties and the extent of the Atlanta CSA goes as far north of Rome, far south of Chambers County, AL, and far west as Athens. I don't really have a problem with the vastness of the CSA, as the MSAs and CSAs are determined solely by commuting patterns, and the longest is from ATL to Chambers County, GA, 90 min on a quiet day, and I can only imagine how commuting would feel on a normal business day (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Atla...l=en&entry=ttu).
Some on here say that you can't use the same analogy to Miami and Ft Myers (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Napl...l=en&entry=ttu)and since the two cities sit on a waterfront, in comparison to Atlanta, which is a hub and spoke city, you can't really compare the two cities, as they're both different. You can move the distance between Naples and Ft Lauderdale, and if you do divide the distance between those two cities in half, 109 miles becomes 54.5 miles.
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Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll
Though in a region that often can be as highly averse to transit as metro Atlanta and North Georgia, a suburban community like Alpharetta doesn’t really need a high-capacity transit link to potentially host an NHL team at this time because the main appeal of Alpharetta is that it is an upscale suburban community with a robust hockey community that anchors a very large and fast-growing pocket of wealth, affluence and economic activity for the suburban Southeast.
If Atlanta is highly averse to mass transit, then that's it's destiny! The lack of commuter rail in Metro Atlanta will be Metro Atlanta's downfall in not just attracting a pro ice hockey team, but in Metro Atlanta's viability as a major metro area and a major market. Just ask Detroit.
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Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll
As Atlanta’s metropolitan population continues to explode on a limited transportation network, high-capacity transit expansion possibly may eventually become more of a priority in Atlanta’s booming Northern Crescent suburbs. But for now and for the foreseeable future, the lack of high-capacity transit expansion isn’t going to hold back a suburban community like Alpharetta because of the massive amount of wealth and affluence (including a large number of $100k median income households) and high-level economic activity (including an estimated roughly 800 tech companies) in the area.
This is a night and day difference between Miami and Atlanta. Miami's mass transit network, while not perfect, is growing, especially with the recent opening of the Brightline between Orlando and Miami and it will ensure future robust growth between Miami as well as Orlando while Atlanta and GA have no high speed rail system as we speak.
Atlanta can continue to rely on expressways and highways, but all that is going to ensure failure, plus when just about every suburb is fully built out and established, it's going to be a lot tougher just to lay out a rail line due to the constant nimbyism. I'd like to see Atlanta adopt plans to construct a commuter rail system similar to Chicago and DC, but the conservativism is strangling Metro Atlanta.
The real question is who will travel to Alpharetta just to see the games. Will Atlantans make the 45-60 min trek to Alpharetta or will it be suburbanites from the north suburbs? It's bad enough that there's no commuter rail link from Atlanta to Alpharetta. Just having a booming population, over 10 Fortune 500 companies based in the city, and the busiest airport in the country isn't enough, just ask Houston, which has the same variables as Atlanta plus a ton of Fortune 500 companies with NY having much more than Houston, why they don't have their hockey team?
The proposal to have a third Atlanta area NHL franchise play its home games at the aforementioned site in South Forsyth County (at the proposed Gathering at South Forsyth mixed-use entertainment complex super development that is located about just under 29 miles from Five Points in Downtown Atlanta) is not targeted at urbanites in the City of Atlanta proper and ITP metro Atlanta as much as it is clearly targeted at residents who live north in Atlanta’s highly affluent greater suburban and exurban Northern Crescent mostly north of the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter in Northside OTP areas like North Fulton (Alpharetta, Johns Creek, Milton, Roswell and Sandy Springs), North DeKalb (Dunwoody), Cobb, North Paulding, Cherokee, Forsyth, Dawson, Hall, Gwinnett and Jackson counties.
With the exception of highly affluent upscale ITP areas like Buckhead, Vinings and the ITP portion of Sandy Springs, the Northside suburban and exurban investors who are pushing to attract an NHL franchise to the South Forsyth County side of Alpharetta admittedly are not focused on attracting hockey fans from the City of Atlanta proper anywhere near as much as they are focused on attracting hockey fans from Atlanta’s greater Northern Crescent OTP suburbs and exurbs.
… And the suburban and exurban hockey fans that North Atlanta suburban and exurban investors are focused on attracting to NHL games don’t care one iota about the lack of a rail transit link between Atlanta and Alpharetta because all of those suburban and exurban hockey fans (the overwhelming majority of whom don’t like even the idea of the presence of transit in their suburban and exurban spaces in a greater Atlanta metropolitan region that remains highly socially and culturally averse to transit) are going to be traveling to the games in privately owned vehicles.
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Originally Posted by wanderer34
Just having a booming population, over 10 Fortune 500 companies based in the city, and the busiest airport in the country isn't enough
Having a booming population, numerous Fortune 500 and 1000 companies based in the city and metro, and the busiest airport in not just the U.S. but in the entire world has been enough to attract an NHL franchise to Atlanta twice previously and apparently potentially may be enough to attract an NHL franchise back to the Atlanta market for an unprecedented third time.
And in addition to having a booming population, numerous Fortune 500 & 1000 companies based in the area, and being home to the busiest airport in the world, Atlanta also has a very large and thriving famous entertainment production scene (in TV/Film and music), and a large and thriving tech industry scene, which have all made Atlanta a highly attractive destination for the potential return of an NHL franchise to the area for the third time in just over 50 years.
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Originally Posted by wanderer34
just ask Houston, which has the same variables as Atlanta plus a ton of Fortune 500 companies with NY having much more than Houston, why they don't have their hockey team?
Though both Houston and Atlanta are booming large major Sun Belt metros, I don’t know if one could say that Houston has quite the same exact variables as Atlanta.
Though Houston has more Fortune 500 companies in its metropolitan area than Atlanta, the Atlanta metropolitan corporate community appears to have exhibited at least slightly more cohesion than the Houston corporate community has demonstrated in the past.
The high level of cohesion within the Atlanta major corporate community seems to have been best demonstrated in the late 1980’s when Atlanta politicians, boosters and business leaders banded together to create a bid for Atlanta to win the right to host the 1996 Summer Olympic Games. The Atlanta major corporate community also came together to make sure that the 1996 Summer Olympic Games were funded completely with private money.
Houston also does not appear to have the same large Northern transplant-fueled local ice hockey supporting community that exists and is anchored by the five aforementioned ice skating rinks in Atlanta’s expansive Northern Crescent suburbs and exurbs.
Which it is Atlanta’s very large community of hockey-loving Northern transplants from the Northeastern and Great Lakes states (which likely is buoyed by Atlanta’s significantly closer proximity to large major Northeastern and Great Lakes population centers than Houston) that has resulted in Atlanta seemingly having a larger hockey support apparatus than Houston despite both areas being booming Sun Belt metros.
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Originally Posted by wanderer34
It makes no sense to have the city of Atlanta's name on your jerseys and play in a different locale. Just ask how SF is doing with Levi's stadium not nearby SF, but closer to San Jose, in the suburb of Santa Clara? Their early season games are some of the hottest in the league because Santa Clara is much closer in the Valley while SF has a micro climate in which it's known for having cold summers and cool winters, plus the wind gusts made it impossible to play there if you was an imposing team.
Also, the Washington Commanders have a harder time in Fedex Field than they had in old RFK stadium because there's no viable transportation links to get from DC to Fedex, and the LA (formerly Anaheim) Angels, have always had an inferiority complex to the point where they have to affix another city's name to their title even though the Angels don't play in LA.
If such a franchise plays in Alpharetta, then they should be better off using Georgia's name rather than Atlanta's even though Alpharetta is clearly a suburb of Atlanta. With the exception of the Dallas Cowboys, the New England Patriots, and the New York Giants (and the Jets), which play outside of their core city and have rail/mass transit links, I don't see how it works out with basing to team so far from the core city. At least Truist Park doesn't have this problem, since it's so close to the Atlanta city limits.
A future Atlanta NHL franchise would use the Atlanta name in their title and on their jerseys because even thought their proposed home arena would not be located within the City of Atlanta proper, their home arena would still be located firmly within the larger Atlanta metropolitan area (or metro Atlanta) that uses the Atlanta name because Atlanta is the largest and most famous municipality and because the Atlanta name is the most famous and recognizable name in the greater Atlanta metropolitan region.
A future Atlanta NHL franchise could use the Georgia name in their title and on their jerseys but it is the Atlanta name that is most famous and recognizable and cosmopolitan sounding than the Georgia name. The Atlanta name just seems to be better for business than the Georgia name at this point in time.
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Originally Posted by wanderer34
It could be a bad move for MARTA, the Braves, and the state of GA to not consider extending to Cumberland from Atlanta in the long run. Most, if not all, MLB stadiums do have rail links at, or close by, their stadiums. Atlanta shouldn't be this exception. I'm pretty sure there are urban baseball fans as there are suburban fans, and Summerhill could've been Atlanta's version of Fenway, Camden Yards & Wrigleyville had they put a lot of energy in the area, but the Braves decided to invest in Cumberland, and I'm not mad at them now, but not having mass transit to Cumberland may hurt them in the near future, especially as the city of Atlanta continues to grow, and suburbs become less fashionable.
The lack of rail transit service and/or high-capacity transit service of any kind to the Cumberland area isn’t hurting the Braves and probably won’t for the foreseeable future because the Braves organization is very heavily focused on appealing to a base of deeply conservative suburban and exurban fans for whom transit connectivity is not only not a priority but is most often seen as a negative.
And the continuing construction of tolled express lanes along existing freeways on the north side of the Atlanta region (including Interstates 75, 85, 285 and 575 and Georgia 400) probably will suffice in place of transit connectivity for the foreseeable future as the Braves’ solely automobile-oriented base of deeply conservative transit-averse suburbanites and exurbanites will just use those existing and planned toll lanes to bypass traffic jams in the general purpose freeway lanes while traveling to and from Braves home games at Truist Park in Cumberland for as long as they can.
Like it or not, the reality is that in an Atlanta metropolitan region where many residents (particularly OTP suburbanites and exurbanites) live a solely automobile-dependent lifestyle and remain highly skeptical (if not just outright suspicious) of transit as a legitimate form of transportation, there most likely is not going to be a public outcry for transit access to Braves home games anytime soon, if ever in the foreseeable future until traffic congestion were to become so severe that the greater Atlanta metropolitan region as a whole (particularly in highly transit-averse OTP suburban and exurban areas) had no choice but to embrace transit as a legitimate form of transportation… Until that time transit access to Braves home games and likely even the home games of a potential future Atlanta area NHL franchise is not going to be a priority.
Most transit-averse Atlanta region suburbanites and exurbanites likely will literally spend their last dimes using toll lanes to get to Braves and NHL homes before they ever even remotely entertain the thought of getting on a bus and/or a train to get to and from a major league professional sporting event. Unfortunately for transit expansion advocates, that extreme suburban and exurban aversion to transit just appears to be the deeply rooted automobile dependent culture of the metro Atlanta/North Georgia region at this time.
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Originally Posted by wanderer34
The Atlanta CSA has 16 counties in the Atlanta MSA, 4 in the Athens MSA, 2 in LaGrange GA-AL, and 1 each in Gainesville, Rome, Jefferson, Cornelia, Cedartown, Thomaston, and Toccoa MSAs. That's 29 total counties and the extent of the Atlanta CSA goes as far north of Rome, far south of Chambers County, AL, and far west as Athens. I don't really have a problem with the vastness of the CSA, as the MSAs and CSAs are determined solely by commuting patterns, and the longest is from ATL to Chambers County, GA, 90 min on a quiet day, and I can only imagine how commuting would feel on a normal business day (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Atla...l=en&entry=ttu).
Some on here say that you can't use the same analogy to Miami and Ft Myers (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Napl...l=en&entry=ttu)and since the two cities sit on a waterfront, in comparison to Atlanta, which is a hub and spoke city, you can't really compare the two cities, as they're both different. You can move the distance between Naples and Ft Lauderdale, and if you do divide the distance between those two cities in half, 109 miles becomes 54.5 miles.
Actually, the Atlanta MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) includes at least about 29 counties total and the Atlanta CSA includes at least about 39 counties total.
Though, it probably should be noted that not everyone in outlying areas who has to commute to and from a job has to commute into and out of Central Atlanta (Downtown, Midtown, Buckhead and Emory University). Many workers commute to and from jobs outside of the Central Atlanta urban core, with there being a very high amount of commuting between and within suburban and exurban communities… Like, for example, workers who commute from a home in Cumming to a job in Alpharetta, or workers who commute from a home in Alpharetta to a job in Alpharetta, etc.
The metro Atlanta/North Georgia region contains numerous jobs and employment hubs (including Alpharetta, Cumberland, etc, etc) that exist outside of the traditional Central Atlanta urban core.
The existence of so many numerous jobs and employment hubs outside of the Central Atlanta urban core (along with a spike in the amount of telecommuting and remote work during and after the pandemic) seems to have somewhat limited the amount of longer-distance commuting to an extent… Though, even with numerous jobs and job hubs being located in metro Atlanta’s OTP suburbs and exurbs and even with a spike in the amount of telecommuting and remote work during and after the pandemic, there still is going to be much traffic congestion generated in a road infrastructure-limited large major metropolitan area of more than 6 million residents and in a road infrastructure-limited large major metropolitan region of nearly 7 million people.
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Originally Posted by wanderer34
If Atlanta is highly averse to mass transit, then that's it's destiny! The lack of commuter rail in Metro Atlanta will be Metro Atlanta's downfall in not just attracting a pro ice hockey team, but in Metro Atlanta's viability as a major metro area and a major market. Just ask Detroit.
Detroit seems to be a really poor comparison to Atlanta because many of Detroit’s woes appears to have been tied to a seemingly complete failure to diversify the region’s economy in the face of a seemingly total economic over-reliance and political over-dependence on the automobile manufacturing industry.
Atlanta has a much more diverse economy than Detroit has often had throughout much of its history… And even with the admittedly limited metropolitan/region transportation network (particularly outside of the I-285 Perimeter), Atlanta has numerous employment hubs spread out throughout its sprawling metropolitan/regional land area along with very high rates of telecommuting a remote work in office jobs, taking much of the worst commuting pressure off of the Atlanta region’s limited road network… A limited Atlanta region road network that very likely (if not most assuredly) would be even worse without a very strong local emphasis on living as close as possible to one’s primary workplace and significant increases in telecommuting/remote work.
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Originally Posted by wanderer34
This is a night and day difference between Miami and Atlanta. Miami's mass transit network, while not perfect, is growing, especially with the recent opening of the Brightline between Orlando and Miami and it will ensure future robust growth between Miami as well as Orlando while Atlanta and GA have no high speed rail system as we speak.
Like you alluded to earlier, Miami and Atlanta don’t appear to be two of the best metros to compare each other too because of the dramatic geographical differences between the two areas.
Miami is a coastal city/metro where the metropolitan development pattern is limited to a relatively narrow area between the Atlantic Ocean to the east and the Everglades swamp to the west. Because of this, Southeast Florida has higher densities of people and development.
Atlanta is a landlocked city/metro with no real geographical or topographic barriers to its extremely sprawling metropolitan development pattern… Hence, the Atlanta region’s extremely low-density metropolitan development pattern that spreads (or sprawls) over as many as up to 30-40 counties in North Georgia.
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Originally Posted by wanderer34
Atlanta can continue to rely on expressways and highways, but all that is going to ensure failure, plus when just about every suburb is fully built out and established, it's going to be a lot tougher just to lay out a rail line due to the constant nimbyism. I'd like to see Atlanta adopt plans to construct a commuter rail system similar to Chicago and DC, but the conservativism is strangling Metro Atlanta.
A very strong local emphasis on encouraging employees (particularly newcomers) to live as close to their primary places of employment/work as might be possible along with very significantly increased rates of telecommuting and remote work has helped to relieve much (though admittedly not all) over-dependency on the road network in an extremely low-density and extremely sprawling metro Atlanta/North Georgia region where high-capacity transit construction, operations and usage may not necessarily always be sensible or sensical.
It was only until late owner Wayne Huizenga of Blockbuster Video fame moved the Panthers to Sunrise that the Cats have had problems selling out, let alone maintaining adequate attendance. The Cats need to reconsider moving back to Miami and even changing it's name from the Florida Panthers to the Miami Panthers just for clarity since the Tampa Bay Lightning have proven to be the more successful FL pro ice hockey team!
Yeah, they should relocate to downtown, and rename to the Miami Cats... or Miami Ice Cats?
Or Miami Cougars... in reference to all the 40 year old Latina hotties prowling the region.
Branding and precise location matters! That's why if there is an NHL team in ATL ever again, I'd much rather see them in an improved Downtown ATL, with a new regional train hub and more skyscrapers and fully developed gulch and all that, rather than way out OTP in some lame Avalon drive-to 'urban' thing in Forsyth.
Though B2R and others make the case that the latter is probably the only way it happens. Saddens me.
Metro ATL... come on guys, time to embrace some damn regional trains and urbanism, for a change.
Yeah, they should relocate to downtown, and rename to the Miami Cats... or Miami Ice Cats?
Or Miami Cougars... in reference to all the 40 year old Latina hotties prowling the region.
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Originally Posted by primaltech
Branding and precise location matters! That's why if there is an NHL team in ATL ever again, I'd much rather see them in an improved Downtown ATL, with a new regional train hub and more skyscrapers and fully developed gulch and all that, rather than way out OTP in some lame Avalon drive-to 'urban' thing in Forsyth.
Though B2R and others make the case that the latter is probably the only way it happens. Saddens me.
Metro ATL... come on guys, time to embrace some damn regional trains and urbanism, for a change.
What I've been trying to explain all this damn time!
What I've been trying to explain all this damn time!
All you've done is derail a decent thread and wish for Atlanta's failure. It's time for you to leave, but you're too much of an attention ho to bow out gracefully....
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And how disingenuous of you to suggest it doesn't matter. In Miami's 'shadow economy' that seems to be the norm, though. And of course Houston has a higher GDP than Atlanta, they are larger by more than a million people, LOL. 
