Atlanta suburbs with the worst infrastructure? (Sandy Springs, Roswell: school, living in, garden)

[waronxmas]

I know people will come for me since it's an OTP darling, but 100% Alpharetta and/or Johns Creek. In fairness to Alpharetta, they have done a good job at building up their Downtown but it's also the same as sticking a band aid on a gunshot wound.

Specifically, the almost complete lack of cross streets, massive stroads packed with retail/schools/subdivision entrances, and a seemingly endless interconnected mass of parking lots. When I worked there I hated every moment of it.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

I know people will come for me since it's an OTP darling, but 100% Alpharetta and/or Johns Creek. In fairness to Alpharetta, they have done a good job at building up their Downtown but it's also the same as sticking a band aid on a gunshot wound.

Specifically, the almost complete lack of cross streets, massive stroads packed with retail/schools/subdivision entrances, and a seemingly endless interconnected mass of parking lots. When I worked there I hated every moment of it.

That's not bad infrastructure, though. It's bad urban planning.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by evannole

That's not bad infrastructure, though. It's bad urban planning.

Lol. What urban planning??? Hahahahahahaha

There probably would have to be some kind of planning first for it to be bad, and throughout most of suburban metro Atlanta there has been no real planning, just the attitude of ‘build it and they will come.’

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by evannole

That's not bad infrastructure, though. It's bad urban planning.

Bad infrastructure can look nice. The thing that puzzles me about North Fulton is that it was intentionally made car dependent and simultaneously they created the most infuriating car infrastructure. It'd be one thing if it was enjoyable to drive there, but the only time that is the case is late at night or the middle of a week day when no one is on the road.

[AtlJan]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

I know people will come for me since it's an OTP darling, but 100% Alpharetta and/or Johns Creek. In fairness to Alpharetta, they have done a good job at building up their Downtown but it's also the same as sticking a band aid on a gunshot wound.

Specifically, the almost complete lack of cross streets, massive stroads packed with retail/schools/subdivision entrances, and a seemingly endless interconnected mass of parking lots. When I worked there I hated every moment of it.

Johns Creek for the win. What a mess.

[bethereds82]

Originally Posted by AtlJan

Johns Creek for the win. What a mess.

IMHO, Johns Creek/Alpharetta/Suwanee/Duluth/Cumming/Roswell, etc. have good infrastructure and parks. Does it get a little backed up on PIB or State Bridge etc., yes. But this is a highly desirable area.

I'm no urban planner or engineer, but much of this area is dense forest with a lot of streams/rivers and hills. It seems like that roads were paved on high land where available, hence that no road is straight or lead to a grid pattern. I have noticed that roads in Johns Creek are being widened and that's positive.

Can anyone confirm my thoughts on this? It's easy to build a grid pattern in the LA valley or Dallas, but there are so many trees to clear and bridges to build along with flooding and sewer concerns. I don't think it's possible to have wide roads here that meet at N,E,S,W intersections in the burbs, but open to any feedback.

One area that I notice that needs to improve their road network is Woodstock. This area is experiencing a lot of new construction growth and I don't see how Woodstock east of Roswell/Milton/Alpharetta is going to handle that. I know that western parts of Woodstock are served by 575, etc., but there's a whole swath of land with seemingly no direct connection to 285 or 400.

[AtlJan]

Originally Posted by bethereds82

IMHO, Johns Creek/Alpharetta/Suwanee/Duluth/Cumming/Roswell, etc. have good infrastructure and parks. Does it get a little backed up on PIB or State Bridge etc., yes. But this is a highly desirable area.

I'm no urban planner or engineer, but much of this area is dense forest with a lot of streams/rivers and hills. It seems like that roads were paved on high land where available, hence that no road is straight or lead to a grid pattern. I have noticed that roads in Johns Creek are being widened and that's positive.

Can anyone confirm my thoughts on this? It's easy to build a grid pattern in the LA valley or Dallas, but there are so many trees to clear and bridges to build along with flooding and sewer concerns. I don't think it's possible to have wide roads here that meet at N,E,S,W intersections in the burbs, but open to any feedback.

One area that I notice that needs to improve their road network is Woodstock. This area is experiencing a lot of new construction growth and I don't see how Woodstock east of Roswell/Milton/Alpharetta is going to handle that. I know that western parts of Woodstock are served by 575, etc., but there's a whole swath of land with seemingly no direct connection to 285 or 400.

What turns me off from John's Creek is the scale--subdivisions emptying out onto major 4-6 lane really bland trafficky boulevards w/ strip malls of big box stores. There doesn't seem to be a sense of community. Cute downtown in Duluth is a start. Maybe it's not really infrastructure but livability that I'm referring to. To your comments above, I don't think it's the geography that led to this but a lack of vision. There are plenty of towns planned to account for rivers and hills. No plan seems to have been the plan for Johns Creek. I'm sure people love it there but I would choose a closer knit community every time.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by AtlJan

What turns me off from John's Creek is the scale--subdivisions emptying out onto major 4-6 lane really bland trafficky boulevards w/ strip malls of big box stores. There doesn't seem to be a sense of community. Cute downtown in Duluth is a start. Maybe it's not really infrastructure but livability that I'm referring to. To your comments above, I don't think it's the geography that led to this but a lack of vision. There are plenty of towns planned to account for rivers and hills. No plan seems to have been the plan for Johns Creek. I'm sure people love it there but I would choose a closer knit community every time.

Yep… You hit the nail right on the head with that statement.

There was no plan for Johns Creek which was mostly built up before Johns Creek was incorporated as a municipal government in late 2006.

Most of Johns Creek development pattern came about before the area’s incorporation as a city when Fulton County government controlled zoning and construction permitting in the area.

Fulton County government’s often haphazard slapdash approach to zoning and permitting, where Fulton County government pretty much never met a development permit that they didn’t like and where Fulton County government was pretty much just a rubber stamp for whatever development projects real estate developers wanted, was one of the major reasons why Sandy Springs, Johns Creek and Milton incorporated their own municipal governments back in the mid-late 2000’s after decades of being blocked by the old Georgia legislative Democratic Party majority before they lost political control over Georgia state government in 2024.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

Yep… You hit the nail right on the head with that statement.

There was no plan for Johns Creek which was mostly built up before Johns Creek was incorporated as a municipal government in late 2006.

Most of Johns Creek development pattern came about before the area’s incorporation as a city when Fulton County government controlled zoning and construction permitting in the area.

Fulton County government’s often haphazard slapdash approach to zoning and permitting, where Fulton County government pretty much never met a development permit that they didn’t like and where Fulton County government was pretty much just a rubber stamp for whatever development projects real estate developers wanted, was one of the major reasons why Sandy Springs, Johns Creek and Milton incorporated their own municipal governments back in the mid-late 2000’s after decades of being blocked by the old Georgia legislative Democratic Party majority before they lost political control over Georgia state government in 2024.

Bingo. John's Creek prior to incorporation was disorganized sprawl led by developers looking to cash in on the lot they purchased, not city planners with some grand vision. It's a disaster waiting to happen since there is no end in sight to the influx of new residents to North Fulton. Since it was mostly farmland in the not too distant past, everything looks nice because it's relatively new compared the other inner core suburbs.

Just you wait until things start coming up on their end of life. Some tough, very expensive choices will need to be made by the North Fulton cities. If you think a eastside NIMBY is scary, just you wait until the helmet headed soccer moms come for you...

[Citykid3785]

Originally Posted by bethereds82

IMHO, Johns Creek/Alpharetta/Suwanee/Duluth/Cumming/Roswell, etc. have good infrastructure and parks. Does it get a little backed up on PIB or State Bridge etc., yes. But this is a highly desirable area.

I'm no urban planner or engineer, but much of this area is dense forest with a lot of streams/rivers and hills. It seems like that roads were paved on high land where available, hence that no road is straight or lead to a grid pattern. I have noticed that roads in Johns Creek are being widened and that's positive.

Can anyone confirm my thoughts on this? It's easy to build a grid pattern in the LA valley or Dallas, but there are so many trees to clear and bridges to build along with flooding and sewer concerns. I don't think it's possible to have wide roads here that meet at N,E,S,W intersections in the burbs, but open to any feedback.

One area that I notice that needs to improve their road network is Woodstock. This area is experiencing a lot of new construction growth and I don't see how Woodstock east of Roswell/Milton/Alpharetta is going to handle that. I know that western parts of Woodstock are served by 575, etc., but there's a whole swath of land with seemingly no direct connection to 285 or 400.

I think it's more than just natural obstacles. Because I've seen land that is already cleared and flattened with terrible traffic.....then they add a Costco with zero improvements. Like what did they think was going to happen.

To me, parts of Kennesaw, particularly around KSU, seems to be well done and in keeping with some of the standards I've seen in other parts of the country. Stoplights on poles, 4 lanes roads instead of 2, sidewalks, etc.