Marta to lawmakers: "Entire" rail ines could be cut without state help (Atlanta: income, taxes)

[AcidSnake]

I just want someone on here to name for me just one totally private runned transit system(Including BOTH buses and rail networks) in the U.S. and the World that DOES NOT rely on some sort of taxpayer or other form of public subsidy outside of its "profits" from day-to-day operations. Don't forget that the money has to be available to repair and upgrade rail tracks and bridges, which can be VERY expensive.

I just don't see this privatization of the rail thing as possible...

[lastminutemom]

Do you all know that there are several Hispanic bus lines in ATL? However, we have no idea if they are profitable and if long term this will be viable.

Royal Bus Lines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[xavier132487]

I just want someone on here to name for me just one totally private runned transit system(Including BOTH buses and rail networks) in the U.S. and the World that DOES NOT rely on some sort of taxpayer or other form of public subsidy outside of its "profits" from day-to-day operations. Don't forget that the money has to be available to repair and upgrade rail tracks and bridges, which can be VERY expensive.

I just don't see this privatization of the rail thing as possible...

Hong Kong. However, I'm for state funding of MARTA. I just wanted to be a smart-ass and answer your question.

Now, Hong-Kong has some advantages that we don't: owning a car there is terribly expensive (it's more densely populated than NY, and comparable w/ Tokyo). The density there as well as it's inability to spread into the sea make it ideal for a private transit network(s). They can only build upwards and have little regulation to impede business/private transit like in the US. Atlanta, however, cannot mirror that. It sprawls, it's car friendly, and it "transforms" too much (the "hot spots" for growth change so rapidly).

And, I liked your post on monopolies and perfect competitions... glad to see someone understands TRUE economics and don't just sputter "supply and demand" and "privatization" as the only efficient methods (as you know, that can change by circumstance... remember Atlanta Gas/Light deregulation and how it was supposed to "lower" rates?).

[lilmusket]

Why doesn't the state just create a special tax district that encompasses all of metro Atlanta? Then a portion of the state sales tax collected within that district and only within that district would stay in this special tax district for transportation projects and MARTA. Metro Atlanta gets less money back from the state then they put in via taxes. A special metro Atlanta tax district could help remedy that.. and it would shut up the rural legislators who erroneously claim that the rest of Georgia funds Atlanta (it's quite the opposite!). With a special tax district focused on transportation.. Atlanta could salvage and expand MARTA, build new roads, and hopefully get commuter rail to Athens, Gainesville, and Cumming. Of course this would mean metro Atlanta's economy no longer being a cash cow to be accessed by the rest of the state.

[xavier132487]

Why doesn't the state just create a special tax district that encompasses all of metro Atlanta? Then a portion of the state sales tax collected within that district and only within that district would stay in this special tax district for transportation projects and MARTA. Metro Atlanta gets less money back from the state then they put in via taxes. A special metro Atlanta tax district could help remedy that.. and it would shut up the rural legislators who erroneously claim that the rest of Georgia funds Atlanta (it's quite the opposite!). With a special tax district focused on transportation.. Atlanta could salvage and expand MARTA, build new roads, and hopefully get commuter rail to Athens, Gainesville, and Cumming. Of course this would mean metro Atlanta's economy no longer being a cash cow to be accessed by the rest of the state.

This is actually a good idea. I always hear South GA and Mountain GA politicians complaining that "their" money is going to Atlanta, when really it's the other way around. Maybe we should prove to these bastards that they leach off us, not the other way around. Hell, if it were up to me, I'd make the Atlanta metro into its own state (yeah, I know, it's crazy but I can't believe how these politicos in S GA get away with blatant robbery and blaming us for their problems).

[JPD]

I don't ride MARTA regularly, but I had to take the train to work this morning. I was surprised how empty the train was. I rode from Avondale to GA. State station at 8 am and 1/3 of the seats were still empty when we arrived downtown.

Is this the norm?

[wxjay]

Originally Posted by lilmusket

Why doesn't the state just create a special tax district that encompasses all of metro Atlanta? Then a portion of the state sales tax collected within that district and only within that district would stay in this special tax district for transportation projects and MARTA. Metro Atlanta gets less money back from the state then they put in via taxes. A special metro Atlanta tax district could help remedy that.. and it would shut up the rural legislators who erroneously claim that the rest of Georgia funds Atlanta (it's quite the opposite!). With a special tax district focused on transportation.. Atlanta could salvage and expand MARTA, build new roads, and hopefully get commuter rail to Athens, Gainesville, and Cumming. Of course this would mean metro Atlanta's economy no longer being a cash cow to be accessed by the rest of the state.

Wasn't this proposed and failed in the state legislature?

The bottom line is this - the people outside metro Atlanta know that they depend on revenues collected here to help fund their projects, but they don't want to reciprocate. So instead they use their representatives to hamstring Atlanta while keeping their communities going. A sad state of affairs indeed, and one I truly don't understand. If Atlanta fails, Georgia fails. Yes, it is that simple.

[blondandfun]

They should shut down the Buckhead-dunwoody line, that would draw a lot of attention. Lots of irate people.

[gt6974a]

GA DOT is a joke as well.

For those who say don't make it private, then make it quasi-private, i.e. GA 400. Apparently it's the only project worth a damn in all of Metro Atlanta, the road is paid for, and they're still raking it in. Another example of how once govt. gets their hands on your money, they don't want to give it up.

MARTA has been horrible for years, they've been cutting for years. Either hand over the reins to someone else, be it a private company or another govt. agency, or shut it down.

Let them spend all 100% of the money they receive without restrictions, then we can let it fail or it can survive. Then all of us can stop complaining.

[AcidSnake]

Originally Posted by runningncircles1

Hong Kong. However, I'm for state funding of MARTA. I just wanted to be a smart-ass and answer your question.

You got me! Although the private company that manages Hong Kong transportation system, MTR Corporation seems to also have some other profitable ventures, from the research that I have been able to do so far they are all privately funded.

Originally Posted by runningncircles1

Now, Hong-Kong has some advantages that we don't: owning a car there is terribly expensive (it's more densely populated than NY, and comparable w/ Tokyo). The density there as well as it's inability to spread into the sea make it ideal for a private transit network(s). They can only build upwards and have little regulation to impede business/private transit like in the US. Atlanta, however, cannot mirror that. It sprawls, it's car friendly, and it "transforms" too much (the "hot spots" for growth change so rapidly).

Great point! A densely packed island makes it more easier to collect revenue since the customers in particular are forced to depend on public transport.

Originally Posted by runningncircles1

And, I liked your post on monopolies and perfect competitions... glad to see someone understands TRUE economics and don't just sputter "supply and demand" and "privatization" as the only efficient methods (as you know, that can change by circumstance... remember Atlanta Gas/Light deregulation and how it was supposed to "lower" rates?).

Thanks! I owe it all to a steady reading of Reason magazine and a rudimentary understanding of the late Murray Rothbard's anarcho-capitalist oriented writings.