New HVAC Installation Company Recommendations (Cool: rental, townhouse, calculator)

[BijouBaby]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

Well, you made multiple "high importance" mentions of the installation being the *most* critical thing. In the OP and in a later post also, which is what I quoted.

I've never had a bad install, in over 25 years of buying multiple systems per year. I was just sharing my experience, and that I think whatever "They" say which caused you to focus on finding that perfect company is overstated.

Sorry if my reply and info offended you. I hope you find a company that does a perfect impeccable install of your new Trane system for you.

No offense taken. But my belief that the company doing the install is the most important thing is both from my own experience with a previous sloppy installation and research online about A/C systems in general. This point is stressed over and over in all the articles I've read. That said, I will agree that you can get too anal about this. I'm just trying to do my due diligence before I shell out that kind of dough again.

My experience - Four years ago, ARS installed a Bryant system at my previous house and did a terrible job. They had to keep coming several times to do something they either neglected to do, or did wrong during the install. They also caused some damage to a light fixture in a hallway while installing an extra return. But it wasn't just the less-than-stellar techs who did the installation, but also trying to deal with their unprofessional manager and the company in general when things went sideways. That experience left a bad taste in my mouth. So, I understand the importance of hiring a company that has a long reputation for great customer service - before, during, and after the sale. I realize there is probably an element of just sheer dumb luck of getting the right techs, on the right day, with the right skill and attitudes, and all the stars in right alignment...

I've so far had two estimates, each saying I needed a different size (tonnage) unit, which is weird to me. I know it's important to get the right sized unit, as my existing configuration is way oversized for my house, which is a big contributor for most of the problems I'm having now. So I will continue to take estimates until someone proves to me the correct size A/C system for my house. I have time since I will do this in the fall.

Now you know why.

[BijouBaby]

Originally Posted by bpollard

Myself, and several neighbors/friends, have used Britton Service group with excellent results (they put in my Train X16)

Thanks! I'll take a look at them.

[ikoolu]

ask them to provide a Manual J load calculation at no extra cost

[lynarthur]

To prove the correct sizing, you are going to want to have your installer do a manual J calculation and show you the details. It is the only mathematical calculation for calculating the cooling load required in order to properly size ac equipment. It might even be better to pay someone else to do the calculation as many ac installers don’t like having to do these.

[BijouBaby]

Originally Posted by lynarthur

To prove the correct sizing, you are going to want to have your installer do a manual J calculation and show you the details. It is the only mathematical calculation for calculating the cooling load required in order to properly size ac equipment. It might even be better to pay someone else to do the calculation as many ac installers don’t like having to do these.

Yes! I saw that Manual J calculation thing, so I called one of the companies that gave me an estimate, Honest Air, and left a message with James, the sales rep that came to my house to give an estimate. I asked him to provide this calculation for me, as I'm getting differing opinions of the correct size.

James never replied with an answer of any kind. <crickets>

For this reason, I'm considering marking Honest Air off my list. No reply? Don't get the sale. If communication is lacking from a potential customer's reasonable request for proof of tonnage, how's it gonna be later, eh?

Another sales rep (and owner of the company) Chris Miller from Miller Climate Control, came out and discussed the options for Lennox systems mainly, but didn't leave a written quote. So I called him a day later and asked him to please send a quote to my email for a couple of systems I was considering, with a couple of customized add-on services - 1 Lennox and 1 Trane system. He said he would. Now a week later..... <crickets again>. No quote. No reply. No nothing.

So these are the problems I'm having right now just trying to nail down a quote for the RIGHT system. Total A** pain.

So for those who may know - besides these A/C companies who apparently refuse to do a Manual J calculation, who does these?

[BijouBaby]

Originally Posted by ikoolu

ask them to provide a Manual J load calculation at no extra cost

They don't want to do it. Too much trouble or are just going for low-hanging fruit (i.e., quick, easy sale).

[10scoachrick]

Originally Posted by BijouBaby

They don't want to do it. Too much trouble or are just going for low-hanging fruit (i.e., quick, easy sale).

Quite possible. This time of the year, I think installers can be VERY picky. Neighborhood message boards "might" be a good source for recommendations. Interestingly, I don't think I've seen any single company have more than one installation this year in our condo complex(13 years old and the original Carrier units are tired!). Based on just one neighbor's experience, I might go with Strand IF we need something soon(crossing fingers that portable unit upstairs is taking some of the load off the aging system).

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by BijouBaby

They don't want to do it. Too much trouble or are just going for low-hanging fruit (i.e., quick, easy sale).

Does the current system cool and heat evenly throughout the house? Does it cycle at designed intervals, doesn't cool too fast or too slow, heats the home adequately without running excessively?

If so, there is really no reason to re calibrate the heat gain/loss of your home as the distribution system seems to be operating correctly for your size system and location of registers. A good HVAC install company will explain all of that.

Homes that have a notable imbalance in heat gain/loss should be recalibrated. Most homes won't need this though.

Steve

[BijouBaby]

Originally Posted by 10scoachrick

Quite possible. This time of the year, I think installers can be VERY picky. Neighborhood message boards "might" be a good source for recommendations. Interestingly, I don't think I've seen any single company have more than one installation this year in our condo complex(13 years old and the original Carrier units are tired!). Based on just one neighbor's experience, I might go with Strand IF we need something soon(crossing fingers that portable unit upstairs is taking some of the load off the aging system).

Well, they may sing a different tune come November when I plan to do the installation. Their summer A/C crap-outs will have dried up, and the winter furnace failures haven't yet started.

Maybe they'll be more cooperative then. There'll definitely be some incentives offered in the fall.

[BijouBaby]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

Does the current system cool and heat evenly throughout the house? Does it cycle at designed intervals, doesn't cool too fast or too slow, heats the home adequately without running excessively?

If so, there is really no reason to re calibrate the heat gain/loss of your home as the distribution system seems to be operating correctly for your size system and location of registers. A good HVAC install company will explain all of that.

Homes that have a notable imbalance in heat gain/loss should be recalibrated. Most homes won't need this though.

Steve

The current system is approx. double the size it should be (I'm being told), so it's a loud wind tunnel mo-fo every time it's on. Short, loud, powerful cycles happening 24/7; so I'm either freezing or hot all the time. But this is the least of my gripes with it. Both inside and outside components are mis-matched size-wise. They both clang and bang they whole time they're on. The blower cage won't hold it's balance, so it's always in some stage of unbalance all the time (blower failed last Feb. after 4 years), thus the rumble/clang/banging. This part of the unit is in a closet next to my bedroom, so I often need to use a white noise machine to sleep.

Outside the guest bedroom window is where the condenser is placed, so it can't be used for anything because it's too loud and slams on like a freight train when it cycles on. In the 3 years I've lived there, 4 different A/C companies have assessed the system and said there was really nothing they could do about it. It's a cheap-o Bryant system that just needs to go away. I'm told if I do nothing, it's not long for the world anyway because it is being constantly over-stressed by all these issues. So I'm proactively looking at replacing it soon to finally give myself some peace and quiet and avoid a mid-summer, at the worst time possible, catastrophic failure.

Various companies who've looked at it have used adjectives like: "a Frankenstein system", "an embarrassment of an installation", "a Monster", "a Doosie", "Wow!", or just scratching their heads and no words.

So if this monster is way oversized, what is the RIGHT size?? Every company is giving me a different answer. I know the ballpark within half a ton, but would like a more precise assessment. I've gotten recommendations from different companies that I need a 2-ton, a 2-1/2 ton, and a 3 ton. Really??? That's a pretty big span of recommendations.