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I love these arguments where people keep tossing out Red Herrings which confuses a very simple topic. It's entertaining. Although i hope it's just trolling as the alternative would be very disappointing.
"What if i'm passing someone and some racer wannabe comes flying up behind me?" Well, i guess that means you didn't check to if it was safe to pass. Unless there's a huge difference in speed, you can see them coming if you look. Just try to say they're coming up too fast for you to see them. I dare ya.
"Oh, but they tailgate me and honk their horns. They're so mean and rude." Um, so what? Just because someone is mean and rude that doesn't mean they have different laws.
"If i'm going the speed limit, i'm not doing anything wrong." Yes, you are. The law clearly places the responsibility on the slower the traffic. It directs them to move right. It doesn't direct the faster traffic to do anything. There is NO responsibility given to the faster traffic regardless of any other laws being broken at the time. They could be speeding, smoking joints, and drinking beer while texting. The only law that's of concern is the one stipulating that faster traffic must pass on the left...which YOU are impeding. If the faster traffic was responsible we'd have a "faster traffic must yield to slower traffic" law.
The argument that the faster traffic is at fault is like blaming someone for going uphill. They're creating the situation where the downhill traffic needs to yield, but it's the downhill traffic's responsibility to move. Yes, even if the uphill traffic is speeding uphill.
Oh, and i really love the "If i'm sitting in my own lane minding my business doing the speed limit than i'm not creating a problem." It's not you. It never is. Everyone else has a problem. hehehe. I bet you say that a lot.
With that, i'm out of this thread. If you don't get it by now, you aren't going to any time soon. I've got better ways to waste my time.
Like maybe working to get the speed limit raised or eliminated? That would be a step in the right direction; at least then we- drivers and police- would all know it was every man for himself.
As it stands for now, I'd rather be ticketed for 'impeding the flow of traffic' (I mean, really...has anyone here been ticketed for that?? seriously?) than for going 80.
I was driving on Mopac today and thought about this thread. IF we reserve the left lane for passing only, what happens during rush hour traffic? Specifically on Mopac? Everyone is moving slowly. Should the left lane be empty and traffic be reduced to 2 lanes? Really?
I'm with love roses... outta the thread. It's almost like discussing religion or politics! I checked my boxes on the poll thread, and that will just have to be enough. For me, hoffdano's post on the first page was probably all that needed to be said:
Quote:
Section 5-20 and 9-4 of the Texas driver's manual clearly say if you are driving slower you should move right to let faster vehicles pass. It doesn't matter whether you are going the speed limit or not.
9-4 says:
"Good driving practices indicate that vehicles in any lane, except the right
lane used for slower traffic, should be prepared to move to another lane to
allow faster traffic to pass."
Any arguments about "flow of traffic" must take that speed limit into account, because the "flow of traffic" should not be going any faster than the legal speed limit. (Note I said, "Should be," because we're talking legal definitions here.)
How about you?
I wouldn't bank on that.
Here's a true story from Ontario, Canada a few years back when they had photo radar in place.
Buddy gets a ticket by photo radar for going 110km on the 401 (2 lane divided highway) when the speed limit is 100km/hr. He goes to court to fight it saying he was going the same speed as the normal flow of traffic. He does not win, and has to pay the ticket.
A few weeks later he decides to make a point. He and a friend of his drive their vehicles side by side at 100km/hr (exactly the speed limit) from one town to another about 1/2 apart. Within 10 minutes they have caused a backup a mile long. This was being broadcast live on the radio traffic reports. He was trying to make a point that 100km/hr on a 400 series highway is not a realistic speed, and his demonstration proved that since he backed up so much traffic.
The cops pulled over both cars about 15 minutes into the demonstration and both were charged with obstructing the flow of traffic and causing an obstruction. The defence that they were going the speed limit did not hold water in court and the fines were upheld.
The judges ruling was that what they did was dangerous and it is not the duty of a private citizen to enforce the rules of the road. Going the speed limit is not an excuse for staying in the left lane when faster traffic (even if they are breaking the speed limit law) wants to pass. The car in the left lane should have moved to the right either in front of, or behind the car in the right lane.
I know this was in left leaning Ontario, which will interpret laws differently from Texas, but it is a real life example of exactly what people are discussing in this thread.
I was driving on Mopac today and thought about this thread. IF we reserve the left lane for passing only, what happens during rush hour traffic? Specifically on Mopac? Everyone is moving slowly. Should the left lane be empty and traffic be reduced to 2 lanes? Really?
If there is traffic to your right, you can be in the left lane as long as you are going the same speed or greater. If the lane to the right is empty, then you should move over.
In rush hour traffic the lane to the right will be just as packed as the lane to teh left. Therefore, stay where you are as long as you are keeping up with traffic ahead of you. If you are not, then move to the right.
Lets apply some common sense to this discussion and our driving habits and we will all be better off.
Speaking of red herrings, I find it amusing how many people throw out in order to avoid answering "Yes" to the question: "Is the person who is driving over the speed limit the primary cause of the problem if a person in the left lane is driving the speed limit?"
Also, as I've said over and over and over and over again, which some find it convenient to ignore, when I see someone coming up behind me driving like a bat out of hell, even if I'm going OVER the limit (and I've acknowledged repeatedly that I do that), if it's safe to do so, I move over to the right. That does not change the fact that both of us are doing something wrong by going over the limit.
What I find amusing is the lengths to which some will go to avoid acknowledging that they're doing something wrong and that they are the real problem, not the people who are driving within the limits (not 30 in a 60 and not 80 in a 60) who are using their (the speeders') roads, damn it! How dare they!
Come on, folks. If you're so danged determined to speed, at least admit that you're making a conscious decision to break the law and that you're in the wrong.
That's really all that I'm asking here. Be honest with yourselves.
If there is traffic to your right, you can be in the left lane as long as you are going the same speed or greater. If the lane to the right is empty, then you should move over.
This is really my issue - on a 65 mph road (such as MoPac) I am going probably 65-68 mph and am in the left lane because the traffic to my right is going, say, 60-65, and I don't want to go that speed. I am therefore the faster traffic, not slower. Someone comes zooming up behing me at 70-75 and is probably irate that I am not going faster or getting out of their way.
I WILL get out of their way if and when there is a decent sized break in traffic to my right and IF I am not going to get stuck over there. I will NOT move over if I am going the same speed as the 10 cars directly in front of me OR I have to slow down and squeeze over (and possibly not be able to get back into faster traffic).
None of this is intended to irritate anyone or cause unsafe driving conditions. I think a lot of the complaints of 'slow driver in the left lane' really are similar to situations in which I would not 'get over' nor should someone have to get over, despite what people claim the situation was. Tunnel vision extends directly one car forward and that is it.
Come on, folks. If you're so danged determined to speed, at least admit that you're making a conscious decision to break the law and that you're in the wrong.
That's really all that I'm asking here. Be honest with yourselves.
It has been my experience that excessive (15mph+) speeders will not even bother sitting behind you waiting for you to pull over. They will find some too small spot in the traffic to the right and will squeeze by and probably cut you off in the process.
The people that seem to be most upset by slower drivers in the left lane are those that are moderate (5 - 10mph) speeders. These are usually "good" drivers except for their tendency to stretch the speed limit, and therefore will not attempt to pass on the right unless there is enough room to do so safely.
What makes the whole situation dangerous is when the "good" drivers get frustrated with being behind the slower driver, and then turn into bad drivers and make an unsafe pass on the right with improper clearance. And by that time, there are now probably about 3 or 4 "bad" drivers lined up behind the slower driver that will end up doing the same thing as soon as they can.
THL - I applaud that you state that even if you are doing the speed limit, you will move over if you see a "racer-boy" coming up behind you. That is the smart thing to do. Unfortunately I have seen too many people who do not drive smart. Those are the people I think us "speeders" are trying to educate.
It has been my experience that excessive (15mph+) speeders will not even bother sitting behind you waiting for you to pull over. They will find some too small spot in the traffic to the right and will squeeze by and probably cut you off in the process.
The people that seem to be most upset by slower drivers in the left lane are those that are moderate (5 - 10mph) speeders. These are usually "good" drivers except for their tendency to stretch the speed limit, and therefore will not attempt to pass on the right unless there is enough room to do so safely.
What makes the whole situation dangerous is when the "good" drivers get frustrated with being behind the slower driver, and then turn into bad drivers and make an unsafe pass on the right with improper clearance. And by that time, there are now probably about 3 or 4 "bad" drivers lined up behind the slower driver that will end up doing the same thing as soon as they can.
THL - I applaud that you state that even if you are doing the speed limit, you will move over if you see a "racer-boy" coming up behind you. That is the smart thing to do. Unfortunately I have seen too many people who do not drive smart. Those are the people I think us "speeders" are trying to educate.
You do realize that it is not the speeders' place to educate those that are driving legally, if slower than the speeders would prefer, any more than it is the slower, legal drivers' place to educate the speeders, correct?
The safe, appropriate thing for the person who is driving the limit and has a speeder on their tail is, if they can safely do so, to move over.
The safe, appropriate thing for the person who is speeding to do if they come up on someone who is driving the speed limit in the left lane to do is to slow down to the speed limit. Do you realize this is the FIRST time this has been mentioned as a possibility and appropriate thing to do, in terms of responsible driving, in this thread?
Last edited by TexasHorseLady; 07-07-2009 at 09:37 AM..
Reason: Bolded for emphasis.
This is really my issue - on a 65 mph road (such as MoPac) I am going probably 65-68 mph and am in the left lane because the traffic to my right is going, say, 60-65, and I don't want to go that speed. I am therefore the faster traffic, not slower. Someone comes zooming up behing me at 70-75 and is probably irate that I am not going faster or getting out of their way.
I WILL get out of their way if and when there is a decent sized break in traffic to my right and IF I am not going to get stuck over there. I will NOT move over if I am going the same speed as the 10 cars directly in front of me OR I have to slow down and squeeze over (and possibly not be able to get back into faster traffic).
None of this is intended to irritate anyone or cause unsafe driving conditions. I think a lot of the complaints of 'slow driver in the left lane' really are similar to situations in which I would not 'get over' nor should someone have to get over, despite what people claim the situation was. Tunnel vision extends directly one car forward and that is it.
I thought about this thread yesterday driving home. I was going about 70 in a 65 speed limit. Left passing lane. There was a car next to me probably going about 65. I was passing them, albeit somewhat slowly.
Then, someone going maybe 80-85 came up behind me and totally rode my tail. Got RIGHT in behind me, and wasn't happy about how slow I was going (even though I was going 5 miles over the speed limit).
What should I do? I couldn't get over because there was a car next to me. I didn't want to speed up and risk getting a ticket. I felt VERY tempted to slow down, but I didn't. I kept going about 70 until I'd passed the car on the right and then got over. The guy behind me was pisssed the whole time and was way too close to me.
According to some of you, I was in the wrong for going too slow in the passing lane.
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