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Old 09-22-2010, 08:10 PM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,404,584 times
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A 94 XJ (Cherokee) 4.0 automatic with 120k is a $1000 car. All you want, you can have. Anyone asking $1500 better have a 70k miles car in perfect condition. Above that? Crackpot. I have three XJ's now and have owned two others.
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Old 09-22-2010, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
204 posts, read 1,298,906 times
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Good discussion. Be advised, even insurance companies throw the NADA book out IF you can prove your car is truly worth more than listed. Case in point: Our 1995 Buick Park Avenue which was "totaled" when another diver ran a stop sign. The entire front bumper was trashed - that's it. Because the value of the car was around $2200, the cost of repair more than totaled the car...HOWEVER...when I and the adjuster produced receipts for 1. $2500 tranny overhaul 2. $1700 paint job 3. Custom Installed Stereo, Auto-Start, 4. $1800 in Zenik Chrome Wheels, and the clincher: A color pic of the Park Ave in full regalia, State Farm informed me they would repair the car rather than total it. So what's my point? This: Folks posting ad's sometimes fail to list any "extras" and upgrades. That's their fault. However, if interested in an adverised auto and the price seems out of whack (unreasonably high) give them a call to figure out why. It might be exactly what you're looking for (and more).
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Old 09-23-2010, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Poway, CA
2,698 posts, read 9,519,350 times
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I don't really get all the sentiment that a seller asking more than KBB is somehow trying to deceive a potential buyer. I once went with a buddy to check out a used vehicle he was interested in buying. When he told the seller that the price was higher than KBB, the seller politely but firmly replied 'I'm not selling this car to KBB'. Couldn't put it better myself. A vehicle's worth what someone is willing to pay. If it never sells at the asking price, no one is losing out but the seller and they'll eventually drop the price or take the car off the market. But I hardly see NOT using KBB or NADA as The Bible of all sales prices as some sort of dishonest move on the part of a seller.

Mike
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Old 09-23-2010, 05:22 PM
 
2,073 posts, read 3,676,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboyslo View Post
I don't really get all the sentiment that a seller asking more than KBB is somehow trying to deceive a potential buyer. I once went with a buddy to check out a used vehicle he was interested in buying. When he told the seller that the price was higher than KBB, the seller politely but firmly replied 'I'm not selling this car to KBB'. Couldn't put it better myself. A vehicle's worth what someone is willing to pay. If it never sells at the asking price, no one is losing out but the seller and they'll eventually drop the price or take the car off the market. But I hardly see NOT using KBB or NADA as The Bible of all sales prices as some sort of dishonest move on the part of a seller.

Mike
I see it as dishonest if they are setting that price to negotiate down. What it says to me is "I'm willing to sell this car for less, but maybe if I lie about how much this is worth, I'll get a few more dollars." If they truly believe the car is worth a certain amount, then that's the price they should set.

I don't negotiate. Either I pay what I consider fair, or I go elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if many others felt the same.
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Old 09-23-2010, 05:38 PM
 
102 posts, read 356,099 times
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I never implied that people asking far above blue book are dishonest. If some people took it that way, that's their perception, not my intention.

If people want a certain price... let's say Blue Book... they should state "this price is firm, no negotiating." I don't like negotiating down from a ridiculously high price. It's a waste of my time.

And if someone wants $3K (or whatever) for their vehicle they'd better be prepared to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's worth that much. That includes a Carfax printout and in addition a printout of a 50 to 100-point vehicle inspection. Don't make me pay $75 to find out your car has something major or several minor things wrong with it. Do it yourself if you want the vehicle sold, and eat it if your vehicle sucks.

PS thank to the guy who chimed in about his XJ. I figure the vehicle I was looking at is worth right around $1500-1800 IF there is nothing wrong with it. It has over 165K miles on it.
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Old 09-23-2010, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
13,388 posts, read 42,701,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QERose View Post
I never implied that people asking far above blue book are dishonest. If some people took it that way, that's their perception, not my intention.

If people want a certain price... let's say Blue Book... they should state "this price is firm, no negotiating." I don't like negotiating down from a ridiculously high price. It's a waste of my time.

And if someone wants $3K (or whatever) for their vehicle they'd better be prepared to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's worth that much. That includes a Carfax printout and in addition a printout of a 50 to 100-point vehicle inspection. Don't make me pay $75 to find out your car has something major or several minor things wrong with it. Do it yourself if you want the vehicle sold, and eat it if your vehicle sucks.

PS thank to the guy who chimed in about his XJ. I figure the vehicle I was looking at is worth right around $1500-1800 IF there is nothing wrong with it. It has over 165K miles on it.
You are thinking like a banker or accountant (one valid way to approach the problem). Another way is to just look at the vehicles. (more of an engineer's approach) Once you have looked carefully at say 5 Jeeps, you can see which ones are in superior condition. You don't have to be a mechanic, just a decent inspector. Go for a test drive and make it a point to push every button on the dash - does everything work? (be safe doing this...but you get the drift). The current owner's attitude towards the car and you can be revealing too - does he sit or stand there like a proud chef or winemaker waiting for you to acknowledge his excellent work, or is he more furtive, like he's hoping you don't ask about certain things?

Like I am always saying, all miles are not created equal. My 87 Camry has 225K, but I maintain it myself to the 9s. Most miles are open road, cruising in O/D miles, very little in-town. Another poster on here has a 92 Corolla with 139K, but he's accumulated most of these miles in NYC, and has at least once run the engine out of oil.

Which engine do you really think is in better condition?

If the Jeep you are looking at is in superior condition, new-ish tires all round, no dents, good interior, runs and drives really well - it may well be worth 1.5X average KBB. If not, it's not.

I wouldn't put huge trust in Carfax or "100 point" inspections on a car so old.

Whatever. You know by now intuitively if the 3K Jeep is a superior specimen or not.
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:01 AM
 
2,073 posts, read 3,676,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QERose View Post
I never implied that people asking far above blue book are dishonest. If some people took it that way, that's their perception, not my intention.

.
I don't think everyone who posts a high price is dishonest. If they believe that's the worth of their goods, that's fine. My problem is the people who know their vehicle is not worth the asking price but ask for it anyway. to me, that's a dishonest representation of what they are selling.
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Old 09-24-2010, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,481,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnytang24 View Post
I don't negotiate. Either I pay what I consider fair, or I go elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if many others felt the same.
You are a rarity. Seriously. I'd say at least 99% of buyers are trying to negotiate down to as little as possible and see ANY posted price as a way-high starting point that they will low ball you on.

The worst is when you price a car not only below KBB, but below condition warrants and they STILL start out by low-balling you heavily. If my car books at $2500 in the condition it's in, I have it priced at $2k to move it quickly, and you offer me $1k, you can pound sand.
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Old 09-24-2010, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,481,696 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by QERose View Post
If people want a certain price... let's say Blue Book... they should state "this price is firm, no negotiating." I don't like negotiating down from a ridiculously high price. It's a waste of my time.
Then don't even start. Makes it simple. If you think it's a ridiculous price without even looking at it yet, then don't even look at the car. Let the seller deal with people who do show up (if any). I don't even call on cars that don't have prices listed, and I don't call on ones that I know are way above value (which includes knowing what costs of parts are. Certain modified cars can indeed carry a higher than KBB price, but it's on a case by case basis).

As a buyer, you can choose the car/seller based on your own criteria. As a seller, you have to take every buyer as they come, and if you have to deal with a long line of idiot buyers, you're going to prepare for what you know is going to be the majority attitude. And the simple fact is, the majority of buyers, especially at the low end of the pricing market, tend to want to get the car for as close to free as possible, and will negotiate heavily from any posted price point. Might as well start 'em slightly high.
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Old 09-24-2010, 01:35 PM
 
2,073 posts, read 3,676,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post

The worst is when you price a car not only below KBB, but below condition warrants and they STILL start out by low-balling you heavily. If my car books at $2500 in the condition it's in, I have it priced at $2k to move it quickly, and you offer me $1k, you can pound sand.
I agree. It goes both ways. High-ballers, low-ballers, lots of people don't seem to understand a transaction doesn't have to have a winner and a loser.

I'm not saying negotiation itself is bad; for example if you think your car is worth $3000 and I believe it's worth $2000, maybe we can meet in the middle somewhere. But if I offer $1000, it would be dishonest.
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