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Old 11-27-2010, 02:55 PM
 
Location: U.S.A.
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Default Cross-referencing commercial filters...

I am switching all of my vehicles over to Baldwin filters so I can exactly choose what I want based on my filtration needs also I can rely on commercial quality. Grainger sells them, they have an outlet close by and I always end up there for odds and ends so I figure might as well. My issue is that Baldwin's catalogs and product descriptions do not include micron ratings unless it is denoted in the part number itself. Naturally the Grainger catalog does not have this information either.

What I believe to be a solution is to cross-reference the Baldwin filters to another company such as Donaldson filters, the Donaldson filters do have micron ratings in their descriptions. I am not sure how it all works but I am under the inclination that the target ratings would have to be consistent across the manufacturers.

Is it safe to depend on the micron rating of another manufacturer in this manner? Guesses? Thanks.
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Old 11-27-2010, 03:58 PM
 
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Not a safe assumption. Each manufacturer will have their own proprietary specs, which may or may not be competitive with one another.

However, you're dealing with quality components here, so you shouldn't have a problem with these filters ... as compared to buying some of the lesser brands in the marketplace.
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Old 11-28-2010, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Poway, CA
2,587 posts, read 4,760,426 times
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No, there is no guarantee that the micron rating of the filters will be the same. I cannot speak authoritatively for automotive, but I used to work in aerospace filtration and even there the rule is you have to be 'close'. For aerospace, how 'close' is determined by the FAA on a case-by-case basis, more or less. While working in the field, it was always my impression that automotive was a bit more lax, which is why I say you cannot assume one brand to match another just because it's the same application.

But you should also be aware of a few things about the info Donaldson gives you. I looked up the Donaldson filter for my vehicle (2009 xB) by using your method (looking up my Baldwin PN and then cross-referencing that). Here's what I got:

Baldwin PN: B37
Donaldon PN: P502019

Donaldson's info: https://dynamic.donaldson.com/webc/W...ml?item=146572

The big thing to notice is that Donaldson does not give you all the pieces to the puzzle. First, they don't state their testing standard. Second, they give you the nominal micron rating (50% at 20 micron), but that's it. What's the absolute micron rating? They say it's 92% efficient, but at what micron size? Seems like they're not giving you all the info you really need.

A good read for those who might be confused: http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/89-5R3.pdf

And btw, I'm not trying to say Donaldson makes a bad filter. But, as many have come to find out when they really start to pry into the world of filters, companies do like to play games with the numbers or just not share them at all. Frustrating to say the least.

Mike

Last edited by whiteboyslo; 11-28-2010 at 01:23 AM..
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Old 11-28-2010, 11:35 AM
 
Location: U.S.A.
2,524 posts, read 3,669,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboyslo View Post
No, there is no guarantee that the micron rating of the filters will be the same. I cannot speak authoritatively for automotive, but I used to work in aerospace filtration and even there the rule is you have to be 'close'. For aerospace, how 'close' is determined by the FAA on a case-by-case basis, more or less. While working in the field, it was always my impression that automotive was a bit more lax, which is why I say you cannot assume one brand to match another just because it's the same application.

But you should also be aware of a few things about the info Donaldson gives you. I looked up the Donaldson filter for my vehicle (2009 xB) by using your method (looking up my Baldwin PN and then cross-referencing that). Here's what I got:

Baldwin PN: B37
Donaldon PN: P502019

Donaldson's info: https://dynamic.donaldson.com/webc/W...ml?item=146572

The big thing to notice is that Donaldson does not give you all the pieces to the puzzle. First, they don't state their testing standard. Second, they give you the nominal micron rating (50% at 20 micron), but that's it. What's the absolute micron rating? They say it's 92% efficient, but at what micron size? Seems like they're not giving you all the info you really need.

A good read for those who might be confused: http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/89-5R3.pdf

And btw, I'm not trying to say Donaldson makes a bad filter. But, as many have come to find out when they really start to pry into the world of filters, companies do like to play games with the numbers or just not share them at all. Frustrating to say the least.

Mike
I am aware of the beta rating system and that is what Baldwin uses. I actually learned about it from their literature section.

The only reason I thought that to be a safe assumption is because the filters are built around the application requirements not the other way around. If a particular fuel system requires nominal blockage at say 10 microns it is the filter manufacturer's task to meet that requirement. That said I see the other side of the coin... I guess I will have to give Baldwin a call this week and see if they can provide more details. I just don't understand why they don't share their ratings.
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Old 11-28-2010, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Poway, CA
2,587 posts, read 4,760,426 times
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Well, keep in mind the Beta system is really only another way of talking about efficiencies. I was more eluding to the method Donaldson uses to conduct their testing. I would imagine they do multipass testing IAW SAE specifications, but they don't cite that on their product data so I don't know.

Like I said, I didn't work directly in automotive filters so I cannot comment directly on how they're qualified or who the sanctioning body is. With aerospace, each aftermarket manufacturer submits their design to the FAA in order to prove that their filter at least comes close to the OE filter's specifications. Once it's deemed acceptable, it's then designated as an FAA-PMA part, basically meaning it's a FAA-approved aftermarket part and is suitable for flight.

Do they do that with auto? Dunno. You would hope that any suitable aftermarket filter would meet the OE requirements, but given how many cross-references one single filter may have, that's tough to say.
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Old 11-28-2010, 05:14 PM
 
Location: U.S.A.
2,524 posts, read 3,669,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboyslo View Post
Like I said, I didn't work directly in automotive filters so I cannot comment directly on how they're qualified or who the sanctioning body is. With aerospace, each aftermarket manufacturer submits their design to the FAA in order to prove that their filter at least comes close to the OE filter's specifications. Once it's deemed acceptable, it's then designated as an FAA-PMA part, basically meaning it's a FAA-approved aftermarket part and is suitable for flight.

Do they do that with auto? Dunno. You would hope that any suitable aftermarket filter would meet the OE requirements, but given how many cross-references one single filter may have, that's tough to say.
I doubt there is as much stringency in automotive as there is in aerospace but food for thought. I have pretty strong faith in Baldwin, Donaldson, Fleetguard, etc. when it comes to meeting OE specs... much more than I do in Purolator, Fram, etc.
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