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Pontiac Vibe had them since at least 2003. All the Dodge/Jeeps I looked at last week had them.
I have always had inversters in my car (after market). What you can run on them depends on the size of the inverter. Right now we have 2000 and 2500 watt inverster in our cars. You can run a lot on a 2500 watt inverter. Yes, you can even run a hair dryer (Panasonic makes a 400 wattt hair dryer.) I used one once when my heater was not working.
We mostly run computer chargers and telephone chargers on them and we have had five computers running and four cell phone chargers at once. Oh an my electric razor was charging too. (an a light, but we did not use the light much).
One reason I think they may not have put them in cars in the past is that they burn out frequently and rarely last more than a year regardless of light or heavy loads. Newer ones seem to last longer.
If there is any difference in mileage using an inverter, it is 1/10 of 1 mile per gallon or less. They make no difference.
I think the reason they did not have them before is that they take up space, they are expensive, they would break often and soon. Once they got smaller and longer lasting, they became more practical.
Why is that? Done it for seven years. I also run a printer/scanner at times.
Converting DC power to AC power back to DC power is VERY inefficient. For devices that run on DC, skip the inverter. Especially for devices that have DC plugs readily available... like computers and phones.
Converting DC power to AC power back to DC power is VERY inefficient. For devices that run on DC, skip the inverter. Especially for devices that have DC plugs readily available... like computers and phones.
For a more realist, off-the-shelf inverter, the efficiency can be up to about 95%, as long as the load is close to the rated capacity of the inverter. (Since an inverter draws power even with no load) The only other losses are the wall-wart that is used step the voltage back down.
While I agree that two voltage conversions is not nearly as good or simple as something that can directly run on 12 volts, it really isn't that inefficient.
For devices that run on DC at say 24V at low current (I have a few amplifiers that do), the simplest way is to just build a simple chopper and use a capacitor-based voltage doubler.
On an old chevy I had, I tapped into the stator side of the alternator, before the diodes, and then all it took was a single simple 10:1 xformer.
For a more realist, off-the-shelf inverter, the efficiency can be up to about 95%, as long as the load is close to the rated capacity of the inverter. (Since an inverter draws power even with no load) The only other losses are the wall-wart that is used step the voltage back down.
While I agree that two voltage conversions is not nearly as good or simple as something that can directly run on 12 volts, it really isn't that inefficient.
For devices that run on DC at say 24V at low current (I have a few amplifiers that do), the simplest way is to just build a simple chopper and use a capacitor-based voltage doubler.
On an old chevy I had, I tapped into the stator side of the alternator, before the diodes, and then all it took was a single simple 10:1 xformer.
YMMV
I'm not worried about the inverter. The AC to DC adapter of laptops range from 65% to 88.4% (with the apple adapters being the highest rated thus far at 88.4%)
DC -> 10% Loss (after heat and cooling) -> AC -> ~20% Loss -> DC.
I'm not worried about the inverter. The AC to DC adapter of laptops range from 65% to 88.4% (with the apple adapters being the highest rated thus far at 88.4%)
DC -> 10% Loss (after heat and cooling) -> AC -> ~20% Loss -> DC.
You are correct. This is totally silly. If I get 90% efficiency from the DC-AC conversion, and my AC-DC conversion is level IV, 85% (which it is) http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partner..._challenge.pdf
(it is over 50W)
Then the amount of power wasted is totally silly, No one cares. It is irrelevant. In the noise compared to most things. Look up the efficiency of your internal-combustion engine.
It IS convenient, however, (to be able run a lot of other household stuff in the car) and I will take that convenience for the solid $0.08 it costs me. Geez.
Last edited by SuperSparkle928; 03-18-2012 at 08:33 AM..
besides the reasons mentioned, ac kills. Dc does not. I'd be willing to bet that this is a part of why ac outlets aren't more common.
I doubt usb will replace the dc accessory port as a standard, because that would preclude the use of every ac powered device. As a minor example, i've used an inverter to show a prospective buyer that their craigslist purchase works fine, when meeting away from home. I use a laptop for work when on the road, and that won't work from a usb port. Usb can't pass enough current to operate air compressors and other tools/chargers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson513
because they would cost $9 and they are not creative enough to see that it would be $9 well spent.
also, morons would plug chain saws and hair dryers into them and burn them up.
To be fair, more than 17 volts DC does happen in many cars... just not at the cigarette lighter.
Are we going to count lightning strikes too? Might as well factor them in, along with any other higher voltage possibility that may occur. Or we could use some common sense and stick to battery and cigarette lighter voltage, which is really the only thing relevant to this thread.
If someone wants to plug their laptop into the output of the HEI, well, that's their stupidity. If someone wants to work on their electric car batteries and thinks they are safe because I posted that DC doesn't kill, too bad for them.
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