Right On Red An Obligation or An Option? (left turn, lights, cars)
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The deal is that the driver behind you was unobservant of the traffic signs and obviously wrong. It's happened to all of us.
I agree. There is a risk involved in turning right on a red and it you are not under an obligation to take that risk no matter how many impatient fools are behind you. Had you turned right and been hit, my guess is the guy behind you would not have stopped to help you.
Yes - the guy behind the OP was an eh-hole.
There is a risk in turning right on green. Turning right on red should be done when it is safe to do so. If it doesn't appear safe, don't turn.
But even if not an obligation, it is inconsiderate of the traffic flow to not turn right on red when it is safe.
If you don't have a clear line of sight of oncoming traffic, don't turn on right no matter how mad they honk their horns. No right on red means just that.
For a car that intends to turn right, the red light has the effect of a stop sign. Come to a complete stop, and proceed when the way is clear. If you pull up to a regular octagon stop sign and refuse to proceed when the way is clear, you can be ticketed for obstructing traffic.
So you are obliged to turn and proceed. and can be ticketed if you do not. Other traffic has the right to proceed, and if you obstruct them, you can be ticketed. I'm not saying you will be nor that in every instance you should be. But you can be.
So, I was at a busy intersection signaling to turn right, from the right lane with a red light. There was a pretty obvious sign hanging that indicated that right turn on reds wasn't allowed (the sign was one with a right turn inside a circle with a line through it).
The car behind me obviously didn't see the sign (I guess) and starts honking for me to make the turn. I didn't do it because of the sign. After the light turned green, I made the turn and the person behind me turns, pulls out on the left and speeds past me in a huff.
What's the deal? Turning right on red is an option in my opinion, not an obligation. And people don't have a right to complain if you wait for a green light. Sometimes the window available to make a turn is too brief to squeeze out into oncoming traffic.
With the sign you described, obviously the turn is forbidden until the light turns green, of course.
But if there were no sign, then no, turning right when it is safe to do so is NOT an "option", any more than sitting still in your car in a traffic lane of any other through street is an "option".
In that case, it's called "blocking traffic". A cop will likely give you a ticket for doing it, and even arrest you and tow your car if you keep doing it (extreme case).
But no, you have no more right to hold up the people behind you for no good reason in a turn lane, than in any other lane.
I strongly feel that if there is not any restriction against turning right on red that you should absolutely turn.. the right on red law is given to us as a graceous benefit, to allow people to turn and help free up the traffic flow and reduce energy consumption from just sitting there and idling. If people don't use what has been generously given to them, it will be taken away and we all will suffer..
But, if there is a no turn on red sign, I will sit there until it changes, no matter how long or what anyone else does. I personally knew someone who was in a position of authority in a small town who had a sign made and posted it at a dead intersection just to have an easy revenue source. He would just sit there across the street for most of his shift and tag all the drivers who seen no cross traffic at all in this dead small town and turned.. Ka-ching! Quota filled! It wasn't officially sanctioned by the county, but most people paid and did not check into it any further. Its all about the money, when all concerned get to wet their beaks ...!
What's the deal? Turning right on red is an option in my opinion, not an obligation. And people don't have a right to complain if you wait for a green light. Sometimes the window available to make a turn is too brief to squeeze out into oncoming traffic.
Agreed. Perhaps you should have let him view one of your favorite fingers as he passed by.
This is the relevant law here in Maine. I'd be surprised if it is significantly different in other states.
The word "may" is permissive; I am allowed to cautiously enter the intersection after stopping. There is nothing stating that I must do so. May and must have two different implications.
Please quote the law regarding Stop Sighs. Does the law say you MAY proceed when the way is clear, or that you MUST proceed when the way is clear? Can one be ticketed for obstructing traffic, if one waits an excessive length of time at a stop sign when it is clear to go and there is traffic waiting behind? If there is a difference between one "may" and the other, what is it?
I think if there is anything that a driver MUST do, is to refrain from unreasonably impeding or obstructing the "free" flow of traffic , i.e., traffic that "may" proceed.
"Unless a No Turn on Red sign is posted, NJ law authorizes a right turn on a red light after the motorist comes to a full stop and checks for traffic."
Authorizing something and mandating it are two very different concepts.
Right turn on red is an option. And as far as any impatient bastard behind me? Well, only I know if I have enough time to SAFELY make a right turn without getting creamed or not to cause an oncoming car to slow down. I know my car, my reaction time, my rate of acceleration, etc so the impatient A-hole behind me can wait if I don't feel comfortable making the turn. And if I'm not comfortable in making that turn until the oncoming traffic actually comes to a stop after the light turns, so be it.
As far as the OP, well you had a sign that stated no right on red. (I'm assuming it was a "on red" and not a no right turn at all sign.) So you did right by not going until the light turned. An impatient horn blower does not make an illegal turn legal.
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