Buying a New Car vs. Used..And How to Avoid a Lemon? (insurance, 2014)

[Brian_M]

Best advice I can offer is to shop for individual cars. Since that's bound to be confusing, let me explain:

The "best" brand car with the least complaints/bad marks on big web sites can still be treated badly and be a total POS. And the "worst" brand cars by the websites with the most horrific track record can be completely reliable and trouble-free for the next decade. The difference? How the prior owner took care of the vehicle.

The #1 thing that makes for a reliable vehicle is the maintenance it receives. So, when you're shopping it's Fine to peruse the websites and look for "Most reliable 2010 used vehicle makes!", you'll be off to a good start by looking at vehicles that traditionally don't need a lot of maintenance. But when it comes time to buy, you *must* evaluate the individual vehicle. If you can't do it, you pay someone else for a PPI (pre-purchase inspection), where a mechanic goes over the vehicle and looks for Everything wrong with it. There's no guarantee they'll find every issue, but what you're going to find is that you weed out a number of sellers who won't allow a PPI (what are they hiding and why aren't you running?), those that will but the PPI reveals the vehicle is a polished turd and those that will and the PPI shows nothing really wrong. You can give yourself Another leg up when looking if you stick with vehicles that have had a long-time owner. Under $10k and you're probably not buying from the original owner, but you may well find someone who's owned it for 5 years. Another thing is to ask after maintenance records, I *love* when people have a binder full of receipts and records because it means they were retentive enough to keep that stuff and that trait always bodes well for vehicle care/maintenance.

Don't run from vehicles that don't score well with the internet if everything else is good. There are Always vehicles out there that don't have any of the issues their brand is known for. I've lived this for more than a decade now with my VW Jetta. They're commonly blasted as hunks of junk, unreliable, complicated/expensive parts and labor, etc.... meanwhile I've had to replace a couple batteries, an alternator, some suspension bushings and a vacuum line (along with normal maintenance) and it's been More reliable than my Toyota. I followed all the steps above when I bought it too, single owner, PPI checked out good, they had all the records (a couple of dealer check-ups/services, nothing unusual)... couldn't be happier.

Good luck shopping for a replacement. You might want to also be looking for mechanics/shops with excellent ratings so you have someone Reliable to do the PPI... and it's funny, but mechanics always know of some vehicles their customers are looking to sell that aren't listed, so they're a great source to ask after potential buys too.

[bande1102]

As someone else mentioned, $1000 in a car for which you paid $4000 doesn't seem bad to me.

I have bought several used cars--from dealers and individuals. I've also bought new. I have the most experience buying used.

I also buy with the intent of keeping the used car for at least 5 years. I usually ended up keeping them for much longer. I do think you're on the right track with your research.

Here's what I've learned: always check for recalls. Read the reviews of the specific year/model/make on KBB or Edwards. Don't be hung up on toyotas or hondas as I find they are really overpriced in the used car market and, for me at least, I just buy those makes new and keep them forever. I'm currently liking mazdas right now as they seem a bit under appreciated and I've had excellent luck with them.

If I'm buying from an individual I limit my cash to $6,000 or less. Dealerships, I don't even visit unless I'm spending more than that.

I will never, ever, ever buy a car that must be serviced at the dealership. I bought a volkswagon that was the biggest POS ever.

I also never buy vehicles over 10 years old or ones hovering around the 100,000 mileage marker. In my experience, 100,000 miles is where a lot of maintenance issues come up.

Speaking of that, cars need maintenance. Things wear out. Once you have a target car, check out the maintenance that will be coming up for that mileage so you can prefer for it and/or verify that owner has already done it. You can even find out the maintenance costs online.

I also specifically ask if a car has been in an accident. You'd be surprised at how forthcoming people are. I always ask why they are selling the vehicle.

[Electrician4you]

Originally Posted by erjunkee

So I'm sure there are tons of threads about the topic above, but I do enjoy getting active/live opinions and having conversations, so I'm starting a new thread.

Last year my mother's car died so I took $4000 and together, we purchased a used car for her from a reputable car dealership in South Florida. Prior to the purchase, we did our research. We looked up the information on the car on CarFax site (and saw that there were no major reports concerning accidents, floods, etc) prior to the purchase and did as much as we could to find out if there were any red flags in the car's history. My mom then had her own mechanic come out to look at the car and he gave her the go ahead after his evaluation. She took it for an extensive test drive, and everything seem okay.

We drove off of the lot happily.

Within months, however, the car began manifesting all sorts of mechanical problems that are too long and extensive for the purposes of this thread.

My mom attempted to take the car back to the dealership but she was told basically, "You bought it. It's not our problem anymore. We're not liable."

She has invested over $1000 in repairs in the car so far, and is very frustrated. She states she can't keep affording to pay for the extensive repairs that the car continually needs. So, she has decided to sell the car..

I have some more money saved up and will help her purchase another car, but I don't want to end up in the same situation as before.


Is my only option at this point to buy her a brand new, unused car, just to make sure that the car has no mechanical problems? How can we avoid purchasing another lemon? What should we have done the first time around to make sure that the car we purchased wasn't so problematic? To what extent is the dealership liable for a barely functional car that they sell to a consumer? If you've successfully purchase a great used car from a dealership, how did you make sure the car wasn't problematic?

Thank you for educating this novice car buyer and her mom .

Not a guarantee. I bought a new truck with the same idea. I don't need to do anything. Freaking thing was in the shop two weeks later with a no working AC. By 30k it had a front axle replaced, CV shafts, and a ecm.
By 50k the rear axle crapped out. By 80k the engine needed to be rebuilt. I dumped it at 110k. It ran great after the rebuild but I didn't want to deal with it anymore.

[eddie1278]

Infrequent repairs are always better then frequent payments every month for years in my opinion. I always buy used and put some work in them right away but i like doing auto repairs and have the knowledge to do all the work myself. If you can't even change a flat tire or check your own oil i suggest get a new car.

[Army_Guy]

Originally Posted by eddie1278

Infrequent repairs are always better then frequent payments every month for years in my opinion. I always buy used and put some work in them right away but i like doing auto repairs and have the knowledge to do all the work myself. If you can't even change a flat tire or check your own oil i suggest get a new car.

That's basically the catch. If you have to pay someone to do the work, any money saved from the low price of the car goes into the cost of labor for repairs. Even just being able to do the basic maintenance of oil, tire rotations, brakes, fluid changes, etc. can save one a lot of money.

Personally, if the car is reliable, I don't think $1,000 in repairs to a $4,000 vehicle is ridiculous. If it's just maintenance stuff, that's going to be any car.

[eddie1278]

Originally Posted by Army_Guy

That's basically the catch. If you have to pay someone to do the work, any money saved from the low price of the car goes into the cost of labor for repairs. Even just being able to do the basic maintenance of oil, tire rotations, brakes, fluid changes, etc. can save one a lot of money.

Personally, if the car is reliable, I don't think $1,000 in repairs to a $4,000 vehicle is ridiculous. If it's just maintenance stuff, that's going to be any car.

The repairs you put into a used car will never come close to the cost of a new one. Even if you replace the engine and transmission your still under around half of what a new car would cost. The other things like tires, brakes and other wear items and regular maintenance are not a factor because that is needed anyway in new or old cars.

[ellysbelly]

By selling the current vehicle and buying another one, she might be jumping out of the pan and into the fire-- further compounding the issue, it's very possible that she might also lose money when selling the current vehicle.

Have you considered buying an inexpensive, either new or CPO vehicle and financing it? I know that might not be ideal, but if your mom (or you) have excellent credit, it will provide peace of mind and a known payment each and every month with nothing out of pocket for repairs-- other than minor maintenance. Financially, she is likely still better off with an older vehicle-- but it might be more comfortable for her to have a payment rather than to pay cash for both the vehicle and to have to be concerned about the looming spectre of potentially BIG repairs.

If buying used, the first part of the equation is to find vehicles known for their reliability (I would suggest checking a variety of sources such as Consumer Reports, Edmunds, etc--- none is comprehensive, but it should help you figure out whether the vehicle tends to be a money pit or tends to be reliable)-- the next and also necessary step is to buy the car for under value, so you're still ahead even if/when you have to sink cash into it (it also goes without saying to have any vehicle inspected, as you clearly did- but again, it's no guarantee, unfortunately).

Once you own the car, having a trustworthy and reasonably priced mechanic is absolutely key, if you're in South Florida, I have an excellent and honest mechanic to refer you to (feel free to PM me)

Additionally, if BIG (expensive) things start going awry or if enough little things go wrong at once, then it's time to sell (dump) the vehicle-- but to expect a $4K car to run perfectly with nothing but gas and oil changes is asking a LOT of a veryy inexpensive vehicle.

To wit, I just bought an '04 Sequoia with 190K miles for $4K a few weeks ago (it was checked out thoroughly by my mechanic and he gave it a thumbs up)-- and I will be putting in roughly $2K in a combination of necessary repairs and maintenance and some preferred upgrades over the next 6-12 months.

Since I bought the truck for cash and for well under trade-in/NADA value, I have no problem putting the cash necessary into it to get it into great condition, especially as I hope to keep the vehicle for at least 3-4 years, if not more. It's still WAY, WAY less expensive than having a car payment-- you just have to look at the big picture, which I realize is quite difficult to keep that in mind when you feel as though you're being nickeled and dimed to death.

My costs so far:

$100 to get it detailed (it was pretty filthy, a large reason that I was able to get it for such a great price, they didn't bother to clean it-- at ALL; yet it had impeccable service records--it was always serviced at the dealership from the time the vehicle went in service until approximately a year ago)
$200 for new-to-me rims (the old rims were so corroded that looked like they'd been eaten-- this wasn't necessary, as the old rims functioned just fine but they were UGLY as sin-- another reason I likely got the vehicle for such a good value)
$80 to have the new-to-me rims resealed and to have the tires installed on the rims and the rims installed and tires balanced
$30 for an oil change
TOTAL: $410


And, in the next few months, I'll pay:

$429 to have the timing belt replaced
$600 for a new head unit (radio), which will include Apple Play and Bluetooth, and back up camera
$300 for a rear brake job
$150 to replace a broken swaylink
TOTAL: $1479 ($600 of which is optional, as I don't *need* a new headunit, but I do want one)

GRAND TOTAL: $1889 ($800 of which is/was optional)

So, much like your mom, I'm putting roughly $1K into it for things that are necessary-- on a percentage basis vs what I paid, that's a HUGE amount (25% of the purchase price)-- but once these items are done, should hopefully have a vehicle that will only require regular maintenance now and then. If things start going wrong (engine, tranny, etc), I'll just dump it and get another $4-$5 vehicle and start all over again.

[Vision67]

If you buy an inexpensive used car you really need to be able to do most of the repairs yourself.

When you hire a professional mechanic, you pay a shop rate of about $130 per hour. At that rate, a simple repair such as replacing a steering pump and hose can easily cascade to a $900 repair.

That's why I think that it's a better choice to buy a new car with a long warranty. The monthly costs are predictable.

[Coldjensens]

Use a good psychic

[Vision67]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

Use a good psychic

Have you ever known a "good psychic" that has won the lottery?