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Old 08-06-2017, 09:07 AM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
7,688 posts, read 29,149,957 times
Reputation: 3631

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Here in Northern California, Teslas are already everywhere even without the mass market SKU being widely available. And they are horribly destructive things. Tesla drivers make me look back fondly on 90's vintage BMW drivers. They race across gore points and cut people off to get into the carpool lane, which they are foolishly given access to even though they aren't taking cars off the road. They speed at a rate that makes even motorcyclists double-take, and will stop at nothing to pass you on the right if you're doing a mere 85 during the rush hour. AAA just jacked up their insurance rates because they are involved in a lot of accidents, and they are expensive to repair because of Tesla's crappy parts network.

Speaking of which, the owners are rewarded with a service experience that hearkens the bad old days of 70's British Leyland with parts always on backorder with long lead times and lengthy waits for service.

Not impressed so far.
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Old 08-06-2017, 09:17 AM
 
Location: North West Arkansas (zone 6b)
2,776 posts, read 3,247,261 times
Reputation: 3912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
Of course it's not going to upend anything. Electric cars are niche vehicles.
Hybrids came out 20 years ago and peaked in 2013 at 3.2% of the auto market.
they have only been niche vehicles because the big players treated them as such.

Elon Musk is a bright guy and he IS turning the tables on the industry. With Tesla, there is now the idea that cars can be electric without as much as a 2nd thought.

This is the first year where I've started hearing about automakers intending to make only electric vehicles as well as the mainstreaming of autopilot capabilities.

Elon is not a stranger to creating new paradigms for others to follow and he's been leading the way on multiple fronts across various industries.
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Old 08-07-2017, 04:28 AM
 
9,613 posts, read 6,943,509 times
Reputation: 6842
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunslinger256 View Post
they have only been niche vehicles because the big players treated them as such.

Elon Musk is a bright guy and he IS turning the tables on the industry. With Tesla, there is now the idea that cars can be electric without as much as a 2nd thought.

This is the first year where I've started hearing about automakers intending to make only electric vehicles as well as the mainstreaming of autopilot capabilities.

Elon is not a stranger to creating new paradigms for others to follow and he's been leading the way on multiple fronts across various industries.
First off you need a garage to own an electric car. 40% of Americans live in multifamily housing. Electric cars require compromise with little benefit and they're not practical for the majority of lifestyles.

Elon is a moron who's solution to range anxiety is the most expensive and impractical. If the average commute is less than 40 miles a day, why do you need a 300 mile range battery? It's because your range drops to a fraction of that when you factor in things like heater and AC use, hills, high speeds, headwinds, etc. The majority of the time you're lugging a much more expensive and heavier battery just in case you want to drive long distances.
In order to make longer drives possible, Elon's approach is to fund his own entire global charging network, with the idea of having people pull over every couple hours for 40 minutes or so.

In order to produce so many large batteries, Elon's solution was to simply make several $5 billion "gigafactories" to mass produce them which of course consumes most of the world's cobalt and lithium requiring more strip mining in 3rd world countries.

GM's solution on the other hand is just give you a 40 mile range and an engine for when it's discharged. No charging network or gigafactories necessary. You can even recharge it with a 110V outlet. Now that's genius.

Autopilot has been in the works for years by everyone. Elon just simply allowed customers to use Level 2 automation while in beta while everybody else knows better than to let the customer loose with unproven self driving software. Elon would like you to think he's a genius, but most people would just call that careless.

GM, Volvo, and Google are testing Level 4 fully automated systems and not letting the public use it till they're actually approved.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
6,980 posts, read 5,415,980 times
Reputation: 6436
If GM or Ford or Chrysler wanted to manufacturer all electric cars only they have more manufacturing plants to blow Tesla out of the water. The big3 know how to mass produce cars unlike Tesla who is useing a old GM assembly plant. But they won't make electric vehicles only because they know they wouldn't sell.
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:46 AM
 
Location: SF
76 posts, read 127,695 times
Reputation: 121
My friend ruined wanting a Tesla for me when she told me about a day trip she took and almost didn't make it all the way home. She drove maybe 250 miles total. I could have driven four times that much in the same time without ever worrying about making it home. Gas stations are everywhere. Until electric vehicles can go far and charge up fast anywhere they won't take over. That's going to be a long time away.
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:38 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
68 posts, read 95,000 times
Reputation: 174
Default Roll back government subsidies to the fossil fuel industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by moxieman2 View Post
Agreed

Let's roll back the government subsidies and level the playing field to see how much "demand" electric cars really have....
And, why don't we roll back government subsidies to the fossil fuel industry as well, and see what happens to the price of gasoline?
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:42 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
68 posts, read 95,000 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Vega View Post
Why should poor people subsidise rich people who buy expensive new electric cars?
Why should any taxpayer subsidize the fossil fuel industry who profit from products that pollute?
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:36 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
10,244 posts, read 16,369,864 times
Reputation: 5309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post

GM's solution on the other hand is just give you a 40 mile range and an engine for when it's discharged. No charging network or gigafactories necessary. You can even recharge it with a 110V outlet. Now that's genius.
In addition to superchargers, Teslas can also recharge with a 110V or 240V outlet. Pretty genius huh?
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:09 AM
 
6,467 posts, read 8,185,741 times
Reputation: 5515
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Vega View Post
Why should poor people subsidise rich people who buy expensive new electric cars?
That is bascially what has happened here in Norway. All EVs are exempt from 25% VAT and any car tax. The only EVs suitible for families (size and range) are Teslas and they are very expensive. The Ampera-e (Bolt) is small and the waiting list is over two years.
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:53 AM
 
9,613 posts, read 6,943,509 times
Reputation: 6842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruz Azul Guy View Post
In addition to superchargers, Teslas can also recharge with a 110V or 240V outlet. Pretty genius huh?
110V charges at 3 miles per hour. For a 300 mile battery pack, that's stupid.
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