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Old 03-19-2008, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,741 posts, read 8,887,255 times
Reputation: 2024

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Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
Well, low-sulphur diesel does cost more to refine than the old stuff.

Then you have home heating oil (the same product) demands...although I don't that this winter has been particularly severe in the US.

The BIG reason for high fuel prices is competition from China and India (they wanna quit peddling!) and the de-valuation of the dollar.

I have read predictions of $200 a barrell oil ($6-7 a gallon for gas and diesel) and I believe it.

I think your Suburbans and Tahoes, etc will soon be worth more as scrap metal than as used cars...

PS: A modern diesel vehicle goes a lot farther than it's gasoline-powered equivalent....so you have to factor that into your car-buying decision.
Right on! Diesel oil is also sold as home heating oil (minus the road tax). You can literally take diesel from the pump, and feed it to the furnace in your home, and notice absolutely no difference whatsoever. And vice-versa. But...it would be illegal to use heating oil in your diesel vehicle...'cuz the gov. wants their road-tax, which you would not be paying...
Because diesel/heating oil is used in BOTH vehicles and to heat homes, the demand is high, thus higher prices. (Gasoline isn't used to heat homes, but diesel is...law of supply and demand at work...)
I've used heating oil right out of my 300-gal furnace tank to fuel my backhoe and bulldozer...for years and years and years. (they aren't highway vehicles...it's perfectly legal)

Bud
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Old 03-20-2008, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
3,644 posts, read 8,583,386 times
Reputation: 4505
Diesel is more expensive now for 2 reasons. First is the fact that new emission standards are now in effect. For all '07 and newer diesel vehicles they must be ran on ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) so it's highly refined. Diesel used to be cheaper than gasoline due to it being less refined but that's not the case anymore. Second, the gov't knows that diesels are more efficient than gasoline engines and get more miles per gallon than it's counterpart. The gov't has jacked up the price since the intelligent people who own diesels will make up for the difference since they are getting more for their dollar.
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Old 03-20-2008, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,224,262 times
Reputation: 29983
How has the government "jacked up" the price of diesel? Aside from the extra cost of meeting the new ULS mandate, the government has done nothing; they have not mandated a price floor nor have they raised taxes on diesel.
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:20 PM
 
Location: McKinleyville, California
6,414 posts, read 10,496,314 times
Reputation: 4305
It is the oil industry that has profited due to tax breaks they received from the government. The government has allowed and turned their back on the ridiculous profits being made. The price of diesel rose 20 cents today,to $4.30 a gallon, gas has remained the same, it is sure to go up again soon. There are many ranchers and farmers here and they are really feeling the punch.
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Old 03-20-2008, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,224,262 times
Reputation: 29983
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer View Post
It is the oil industry that has profited due to tax breaks they received from the government. The government has allowed and turned their back on the ridiculous profits being made. The price of diesel rose 20 cents today,to $4.30 a gallon, gas has remained the same, it is sure to go up again soon. There are many ranchers and farmers here and they are really feeling the punch.
You obviously have no idea how much taxes the oil companies pay to the government first on corporate profits, then on dividend distributions to shareholders, and then again at the pump. ExxonMobil alone remitted $100 billion dollars in taxes last year. That's one single company. They paid more than twice as much in taxes as they earned in profits. "Tax breaks" indeed.

You also have evidently not been paying attention to the government response to increased oil company profits. The government recently prevented oil companies from using the LIFO inventory accounting method that all other industries are permitted to use, which resulted in a de facto 5 billion dollar per year tax increase on the industry.

I like how on the one hand you complain that fuel prices are too high and on the other hand you complain that one of their major costs is too low. Go ahead and raise that cost and watch your fuel prices go even higher.
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Old 03-20-2008, 07:03 PM
 
Location: McKinleyville, California
6,414 posts, read 10,496,314 times
Reputation: 4305
The governments response to the oil company profits is way too late. They were allowed to profit year after year and now the government steps in. I do not recall complaining that one of their major costs is too low. Maybe you can explain why the price of gas in California went through the roof during Katrina when we do not get our gas from the gulf area. Our price here was the highest in the nation during that disaster. I am fortunate to only drive about 200 miles a month, but for those driving a daily commute that equals my monthly mileage get hit big time by an increase in the gas costs of over $100 a month at least.
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Old 03-20-2008, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,224,262 times
Reputation: 29983
"They were allowed to profit"?? Why the hell would they not be allowed to profit? They're businesses. That's what they're supposed to do -- make a profit.

And yes, you did complain that one of their major costs is too low. Taxes are a cost, and you're complaining that they're not being taxed enough. If you think increasing the cost to bring oil to market -- which is what you advocate by clamoring for higher taxes -- is going to lower the cost of gas, then you simply do not understand the most basic, fundamental economics.

What do you mean "we" don't get our oil from the Gulf region? Of course we get lot of our oil from the Gulf region. The reason why oil prices went up after Katrina is because oil is bought and sold on a global market, not just locally or regionally. When there are supply disruptions from a major oil producer, that causes prices to go up worldwide. And yes, the United States is a major oil producer -- we are the world's third-largest oil producer behind only Saudi Arabia and Russia.
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Old 03-21-2008, 10:45 AM
 
Location: McKinleyville, California
6,414 posts, read 10,496,314 times
Reputation: 4305
You seem to read into what I say, what you want to see. California does not get it's gas from the gulf states. Maybe Chicago does, but we do not. You sound like you work for the oil industry or you do not drive a vehicle. I have to in my business, I can't walk to work or use alternative transportation.
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Old 03-21-2008, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Oz
2,238 posts, read 9,758,676 times
Reputation: 1398
Buy a diesel anyway, and go bio.
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Old 03-21-2008, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,224,262 times
Reputation: 29983
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer View Post
You seem to read into what I say, what you want to see. California does not get it's gas from the gulf states. Maybe Chicago does, but we do not. You sound like you work for the oil industry or you do not drive a vehicle. I have to in my business, I can't walk to work or use alternative transportation.
I don't work in the oil industry, and I do drive a car. In fact, I own three cars. But thanks for making unfounded assumptions about me. That's a really constructive way to conduct a dialog.

It doesn't matter where California gets its gasoline from, though I have a very hard time believing it gets none of its gasoline from Gulf refineries. A disruption in oil production and refining capacity has a nationwide and worldwide effect on gas prices because oil (and to a lesser extent gasoline) operates in a global market. At the very least, gasoline operates in a nationwide market. California does not operate in its own little bubble that is somehow immune from the effects of disruptions in national and worldwide markets.
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