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Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 33,044,161 times
Reputation: 28903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD
1a- Not really.
1b- Not really.
Ottawa is completely flat and annual snowfall is only 224 cm/88 inches. Snow tires matter and if the OP lived on the Quebec side of the river rather than the Ontario side of the river, they'd have snow tires since they're required by law. Ottawa has this thing called snow plows. It's unlikely the OP would often encounter snow deep enough or a hill steep enough where AWD would be much benefit.
On ice, it's braking and cornering that matter. AWD really isn't much help. It's all about the tires.
I drive a current generation 6-cylinder Subaru Outback with Nokian Hakka R2s as my winter tire. I had VW GTIs as my daily driver in Vermont (200" average snowfall in my driveway) for 14 years that also had predecessor versions of those Nokians. I also owned body-on-frame SUVs that went to the ski area. The GTIs were better in slippery conditions than the Outback because they weighed 500 pounds less. Unless the GTI bottomed out, it could go anywhere. The only dodgy condition was deeper wet slush where the short wheelbase and light weight made those cars squirrelly.
Personally, I don't know why anyone would buy a Subaru CrossTrek. Just buy an Impreza 5 door. Same car but lower ground clearance so it gets better fuel economy and has better 0 to 60 mph times because of less wind resistance. It also handles better. In a car that sluggish, why slow it down even more with 3" of extra ground clearance? Spend the difference on good snow tires and winter wheels which you're going to need on either car.
Thanks, Geoff.
I used to live in Montreal, so I know that law. Even now that I'm on the other side of the river -- and even when I lived in CT and MA -- I put snow tires on my car every winter. Ottawa is in the valley so gets more snow than Montreal does.
I'm very familiar with snow plows but I hadn't considered the Impreza, since I was looking for a little tank to get me through when my driveway hasn't been plowed *enough* or when the plows pile up the ridge of snow at the curb line as they're pushing it up the street.
On ice, it's braking and cornering that matter. AWD really isn't much help. It's all about the tires.
I disagree. I've seen plenty of situations in the city, not involving hills where AWD would have helped. And we're talking about Quebec where winter tires are mandatory. A car stuck on the side of the curb, having slid there on a turn and unable to get out due to the presence of ice underneath fresh snow. People having difficulty getting out of their parallel parking spots because of compacted snow above ice. I've also seen FWD cars getting stuck on a small ridge of snow newly created by a snowplow at an intersection. In fact, when it really gets cold and icy, when even salt stops working, people with winter tires spin their tires at intersections here.
AWD is not mandatory, and you'll easily survive without, but it makes life easier in a lot of little ways in the city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnMTL
when the plows pile up the ridge of snow at the curb line as they're pushing it up the street.
For that I'm thinking Crosstrek > Impreza > CX-3. The Crosstrek has the most ground clearance with Subaru's reputed AWD system. The CX-3 interestingly only has 0.5 inch more clearance than the Impreza. Although if Ottawa's snowplow ridges are as tall as those in Montreal during snow storms, good luck ;-)
Last edited by CloudReader; 12-11-2017 at 09:07 PM..
Look at that little tank! I love it! (And that's the color that I want too. Forgive me for that; I'm such a girl.)
Thank you so much for digging that up and posting it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudReader
I disagree. I've seen plenty of situations in the city, not involving hills where AWD would have helped. And we're talking about Quebec where winter tires are mandatory. A car stuck on the side of the curb, having slid there on a turn and unable to get out due to the presence of ice underneath fresh snow. People having difficulty getting out of their parallel parking spots because of compacted snow above ice. I've also seen FWD cars getting stuck on a small ridge of snow newly created by a snowplow at an intersection. In fact, when it really gets cold and icy, when even salt stops working, people with winter tires spin their tires at intersections here.
AWD is not mandatory, and you'll easily survive without, but it makes life easier in a lot of little ways in the city.
For that I'm thinking Crosstrek > Impreza > CX-3. The Crosstrek has the most ground clearance with Subaru's reputed AWD system. The CX-3 interestingly only has 0.5 inch more clearance than the Impreza. Although if Ottawa's snowplow ridges are as tall as those in Montreal during snow storms, good luck ;-)
Ahhhh! YES to all of that! You know EXACTLY what I'm talking about!
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 33,044,161 times
Reputation: 28903
Quote:
Originally Posted by emma85
Mazda CX-3 is rather safe car like all Japan cars. I've been driving it for several years. As I live in Canada, it rather expensive to own a car and I used to ship it from U.S ( via https://clearit.ca/services/importing-cars ) for better quality. They did all insurance and paper work.
Thanks, Emma85. I know all about that. My current Mazda 6 is "American born" and, when I moved back to Canada and took the car with me, I did all of that import stuff on my own, no service required. It was easy-breezy. Further to that, whatever car I choose, I'll be buying it here in Canada.
Ottawa is completely flat and annual snowfall is only 224 cm/88 inches. Snow tires matter and if the OP lived on the Quebec side of the river rather than the Ontario side of the river, they'd have snow tires since they're required by law. Ottawa has this thing called snow plows. It's unlikely the OP would often encounter snow deep enough or a hill steep enough where AWD would be much benefit.
On ice, it's braking and cornering that matter. AWD really isn't much help. It's all about the tires.
I drive a current generation 6-cylinder Subaru Outback with Nokian Hakka R2s as my winter tire. I had VW GTIs as my daily driver in Vermont (200" average snowfall in my driveway) for 14 years that also had predecessor versions of those Nokians. I also owned body-on-frame SUVs that went to the ski area. The GTIs were better in slippery conditions than the Outback because they weighed 500 pounds less. Unless the GTI bottomed out, it could go anywhere. The only dodgy condition was deeper wet slush where the short wheelbase and light weight made those cars squirrelly.
Personally, I don't know why anyone would buy a Subaru CrossTrek. Just buy an Impreza 5 door. Same car but lower ground clearance so it gets better fuel economy and has better 0 to 60 mph times because of less wind resistance. It also handles better. In a car that sluggish, why slow it down even more with 3" of extra ground clearance? Spend the difference on good snow tires and winter wheels which you're going to need on either car.
Edited:
I'd add that AWD and ground clearance is mostly a convenience. When I had a GTI and an SUV, I didn't have to shovel out the SUV to go skiing and I could park wherever I wanted.
This does not require a shovel.
This requires a shovel.
1a) Yes really.
1b) Yes really.
Gaining and maintaining traction also matter on ice. You gain traction much quicker -- as in, it's not even remotely comparable -- and you're less likely to break that traction if you have the torque distributed to both axles versus only one. That goes for cornering too. AWD can't rescue anyone from driving like an idiot, but it does raise the threshold of traction loss and it makes recovery quicker when you begin to exceed that threshold. The video below shows how vast the difference is on even a very slight incline, using the exact same car on the exact same tires to eliminate any vehicular variables between comparisons.
The idea that there's no use for AWD in a location that "only" gets 7+ feet of snow on average is goofy. As for your second picture re: "this requires a shovel" -- if that were my WRX on snow tires, I'd be able to brush the car off, get in, and pull away without lifting a shovel once. BTDT countless times.
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 33,044,161 times
Reputation: 28903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey
1a) Yes really.
1b) Yes really.
Gaining and maintaining traction also matter on ice. You gain traction much quicker -- as in, it's not even remotely comparable -- and you're less likely to break that traction if you have the torque distributed to both axles versus only one. That goes for cornering too. AWD can't rescue anyone from driving like an idiot, but it does raise the threshold of traction loss and it makes recovery quicker when you begin to exceed that threshold. It's an extreme example, but there's a reason why FWD cars and AWD cars compete in different classes in rally events.
The idea that there's no use for AWD in a location that "only" gets 7+ feet of snow on average is goofy. As for your second picture re: "this requires a shovel" -- if that were my WRX on snow tires, I'd be able to brush the car off, get in, and pull away without lifting a shovel once. BTDT countless times.
Thank you.
I hadn't seen Geoff's edited post and the pictures so I'll add this:
I didn't ask for commentary. I asked very specific questions. I'm 5' tall, weigh 100 pounds, have M.S., and don't have a shovel. I didn't ask what anyone thought I could or couldn't -- or should or shouldn't -- do; I asked specific questions about two specific cars. End of story.
And for that reason too, Bitey gets another thank you.
Maybe think about the Kia Sportage which is comparable to a Forester. It might be slightly less snow capable but would also be slightly more comfort oriented.
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 33,044,161 times
Reputation: 28903
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoleFanHSV
Cx-5. Crosstrek is slow. Cx3 is cramped.
My cousin who lives around the corner from me has a CX-5. He's going to think that I'm a copycat.
I'm little -- I won't feel cramped in a CX-3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icy Tea
Maybe think about the Kia Sportage which is comparable to a Forester. It might be slightly less snow capable but would also be slightly more comfort oriented.
Funny that you should mention the Kia. My cousin's wife has a Kia Soul. They're going to think that I never have a unique thought.
Thank you -- I'll check out the Sportage.
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