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Of course in places in the world like China drivers would literally threaten to run through pedestrians and bicyclists and miss them by mere centimeters no matter where they encounter them, yes even with the green light/walking man. I heard that even in well ordered Singapore where rules and fines abound, probably due to the heavy Chinese ancestry influence(76%) there, drivers would try to intimidate pedestrians whenever they legally can get away with. i.e charging at pedestrians at zebra crossings stopping at last moment, and in unmarked crossings the locals take it as its acceptable for drivers to bully pedestrians out of their way.
So pedestrians should have the freedom to decide to make ALL THE CARS on the road stop and be delayed, causing massive traffic bottlenecks and/or accidents and injuries just because they're too lazy to walk up a block or whatever to cross at a legitimate corner/crosswalk?
Makes no sense to me.
It's also pretty arrogant and stupid for a pedestrian to assume the entire driving world will see them in time, stop in time, and they'll live to tell about it.
What's the difference between this and some little unsupervised kid running out in traffic in between cars where they can't be seen?
The expression is "Don't run out in traffic" not "Don't worry; traffic will always stop for you."
Now take it a step further to a VERY busy street or even a curve or circle where drivers have to be super alert to other drivers, for example - merging...and you have an impossible situation.
In Philadelphia, pedestrian deaths and injuries have been a persistent problem, with 37 pedestrians killed in 2013 and 1,796 injured.
In the last five years, 162 pedestrians have been killed in Philadelphia and 8,919 injured by vehicles, according to the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation
You are not a "citizens advocate" if you're advocating for citizens to be intentionally willfully suicidal and intentionally inconvenience and endanger the entire legitimate driving population following the LAW.
This reminds me of a driver I know of who was stopped at a four way stop in heavy fog in the early morning. In his own neighborhood. An IDIOT on a bicycle, came cruising around the street corner and FAILED TO STOP and the poor driver had already made his four way stop and was crossing the street but TOO LATE, because the biker actually ran into HIM and got killed.
The DRIVER was arrested for manslaughter.
So OK. Let's destroy the man's life and his entire family's with four kids just because the biker thought he was above the law and COMMON SENSE.
Of course back in the day, this would just be considered "an accident" but NOW, the local police decided to stick it to him and I guess, be some type of example.
I'm a low-vision pedestrian, too blind to drive. My policy is to never never never cross at an intersection. I, and only I, am completely responsible for my own safety, and I never put it in the hands of people who are "supposed to be" obeying the law. At an intersection, I never depend on a driver to be paying attention, while turning, to the crosswalk he is turning into and could not have a clear view of in advance..
I go to the middle of the block, look left, step out and walk to the center, then look right and continue when the way is clear. At any time, cars are coming from only one direction, and I have enough vision to see that lane. I cannot see cars coming from behind me and turning into my crosswalk, so I don't go there.
What is really scary to me is electric cars -- I can't hear then sneaking up on me.
The pedestrian always has the "right of way" no matter where or what road the pedestrian is on in the USA.
That line of reasoning will get you killed in most places, walking out into traffic and expecting cars to immediately come to a stop so you can cross the road aint how it works. Best option is wait till there are no cars coming then make your dash across the road.
In Hanoi, I was too chicken to try it, but it looked like people just walked out into the solid blizzard of motorbikes and the drivers just swerved around them.
.
In Vietnam.
In big cities. The motorbikes do stop at red lights. But all take off in unison before the light turns green.
Amazing to watch.
The pedestrian always has the "right of way" no matter where or what road the pedestrian is on in the USA.
Not true. Right of way laws are on a state level. I live in NY, and our laws are as follows:
- Pedestrians ONLY have the de facto right of way when they are crossing at an intersection where there is no traffic control device, like lights or signs.
- At light-controlled intersections, pedestrians can ONLY cross legally on THEIR green light, moving with parallel traffic. They can't cross in front of moving traffic on a red light.
- They are not supposed to be crossing in the middle of a block or between stop signals. I see a lot of really stupid people crossing heavily traveled roads and streets in my area, and getting seriously hurt or killed because they have not taken the time to learn the laws and how to cross safely.
This reminds me of a driver I know of who was stopped at a four way stop in heavy fog in the early morning. In his own neighborhood. An IDIOT on a bicycle, came cruising around the street corner and FAILED TO STOP and the poor driver had already made his four way stop and was crossing the street but TOO LATE, because the biker actually ran into HIM and got killed.
The DRIVER was arrested for manslaughter.
So OK. Let's destroy the man's life and his entire family's with four kids just because the biker thought he was above the law and COMMON SENSE.
Of course back in the day, this would just be considered "an accident" but NOW, the local police decided to stick it to him and I guess, be some type of example.
This is probably urban legend.
Being arrested for something does not = prosecution. A prosecutor is not going to press charges if these facts are true.
Police do not make any decision to 'stick it to him" they decide whether it appears a crime was comitted. that is all.
this story is simply not believable. If not urban legend, then the driver is either lying or there is more he did not tell you, like he was drunk. It also makes no sense that a bicycle hitting a car that is barely moving would be killed. Different story if the car ran the cyclist over, but that would not and did not occur in the facts presented.
How does a cyclist coming around the corner at a four way stop even hit a car? What corner did he come around? the only way the bicycle can hit the car going through the intersection is if he is going straight through the intersection (if he was making a left turn he would have been going straight across the drivers lane, not turning. , not coming around a corner. Was the drive on the wrong side of the road? Some other corner not related the intersection? Bicycle made a left turn into the wrong lane and hit the car head on before he go to half way through the intersection. It s very difficult to make this part of the story make sense, but since the rest of the story makes less sense and contains "facts" that are not true, it looks like just urban legend or the driver made up the story.
Now if the driver was drunk, and the drunkenness contributed to the accident, then the whole thing suddenly makes sense. Pretty much if you are in an accident while drunk you are gong to take the blame regardless of whether you hit a bicycle, car, pedestrian, or shopping cart. Also if the driver was on the sidewalk or in the bike lane instead of on the road, this story woudl make sense, especially if he was drunk.
So pedestrians should have the freedom to decide to make ALL THE CARS on the road stop and be delayed, causing massive traffic bottlenecks and/or accidents and injuries just because they're too lazy to walk up a block or whatever to cross at a legitimate corner/crosswalk?
Makes no sense to me.
It's also pretty arrogant and stupid for a pedestrian to assume the entire driving world will see them in time, stop in time, and they'll live to tell about it.
What's the difference between this and some little unsupervised kid running out in traffic in between cars where they can't be seen?
The expression is "Don't run out in traffic" not "Don't worry; traffic will always stop for you."
Now take it a step further to a VERY busy street or even a curve or circle where drivers have to be super alert to other drivers, for example - merging...and you have an impossible situation.
In Philadelphia, pedestrian deaths and injuries have been a persistent problem, with 37 pedestrians killed in 2013 and 1,796 injured.
In the last five years, 162 pedestrians have been killed in Philadelphia and 8,919 injured by vehicles, according to the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation
You are not a "citizens advocate" if you're advocating for citizens to be intentionally willfully suicidal and intentionally inconvenience and endanger the entire legitimate driving population following the LAW.
This reminds me of a driver I know of who was stopped at a four way stop in heavy fog in the early morning. In his own neighborhood. An IDIOT on a bicycle, came cruising around the street corner and FAILED TO STOP and the poor driver had already made his four way stop and was crossing the street but TOO LATE, because the biker actually ran into HIM and got killed.
The DRIVER was arrested for manslaughter.
So OK. Let's destroy the man's life and his entire family's with four kids just because the biker thought he was above the law and COMMON SENSE.
Of course back in the day, this would just be considered "an accident" but NOW, the local police decided to stick it to him and I guess, be some type of example.
My posts are simply asking about driver behavior at street corners/crosswalks. Particularly one of the many junctions of smaller streets people will encounter walking down any road that are unmarked without any type of traffic signal or sign. These are unmarked crosswalks as pedestrians would have to cross them in order to continue on their way otherwise they would be entrapped in a city block.
I am not talking about Jaywalking where its forbidden to cross.
I guess you will make home in China. Where the green walking man appears and it appears clear of traffic. Than all of a sudden a bus will fly out from no where and turn across your path nearly catching you with its big back wheels if you didn't run in the other direction. The bus driver been oblivious that he is not driving a smaller vehicle and cannot avoid people that easily and that the bus's back wheels will follow a much shorter path than the front of the bus where he is sitting in and might catch pedestrians he tried to cut in front.
Zebra lines in China is almost like the red cape to a bull. I guess this is the only form of entertainment to the Chinese who were heavily sheltered by the communist party. And of course there was the tradition of only the elite and high ranking who owned cars for a long time.
Though I do agree manslaughter charge for an incident you mentioned is way over the top. Its a part of the ridiculous zero tolerance criminalize everything scheme lobbied by lawyers and judges these days to gain business. Maybe make him pay in increments the medical bills/ life insurance cost but manslaughter charge for a no fault accident its court system gone crazy. Given the driver did not intentionally run down the bicycle or was severely drunk/or illegal drugged. Alas it happens in China too. As regardless of how the traffic appear to treat pedestrians China, when one is killed or injured the motorized side is always responsible both criminally and or civilly there since 2004. There have been such cases in China when pedestrians illegally enter expressways, viaducts, and ring roads and won after they were killed or injured. Makes me surprised how Chinese drivers still maintain such a "homicidal" attitude towards pedestrians they encounter.
Though even if he is acquitted without a prosecution will it still be in his background check?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan
I'm a low-vision pedestrian, too blind to drive. My policy is to never never never cross at an intersection. I, and only I, am completely responsible for my own safety, and I never put it in the hands of people who are "supposed to be" obeying the law. At an intersection, I never depend on a driver to be paying attention, while turning, to the crosswalk he is turning into and could not have a clear view of in advance..
I go to the middle of the block, look left, step out and walk to the center, then look right and continue when the way is clear. At any time, cars are coming from only one direction, and I have enough vision to see that lane. I cannot see cars coming from behind me and turning into my crosswalk, so I don't go there.
What is really scary to me is electric cars -- I can't hear then sneaking up on me.
I guess you still live in the Phillipines? From your first post I will not be too afraid to visit the Philippines afterall. Alas it would be very difficult to avoid street corners without lights as it would be impossible to put lights or signs or even lines on each and every one of them. And if you would like to cross midblock you will need to walk way out of your way many many times block after block. Fortunately Tesla's and other high tech electric and other quiet cars now have pedestrian detection. Though we cannot trust them to work at all times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit731
In Vietnam.
In big cities. The motorbikes do stop at red lights. But all take off in unison before the light turns green.
Amazing to watch.
I googled and watched a lot of Vietnamese traffic videos. Vietnam seems a story of its own Yes it appears Vietnamese are very good at respecting red traffic lights where they exist. Though it seems red lights are the only place they come to a halt at all. And its surprising how many major intersections have no traffic lights at all and traffic just keeps flowing through like an ant hill.
Crazy Saigon Traffic - YouTube one with traffic lights
Vietnam traffic Intersection - YouTube This one with no traffic lights note how everything keeps coming and going in all directions.
Though I guess maybe its safer to be a pedestrian in Vietnam than a pedestrian in China or other parts of the world. As traffic constantly know to avoid pedestrians and each other.
Last edited by citizensadvocate; 02-08-2018 at 04:38 PM..
This might be a good place to mention electric cars again. Jeremy on Top Gear mentioned this a couple of times before he got drummed out of the corps for some trivial indiscretion. Simply put, pedestrians cannot hear them coming. People depend on their hearing a great deal when moving about. They are a real menace to the blind, and even people with perfectly normal vision are likely to stroll out in front of one if they do not hear any traffic. How this will play out in traffic remains to be seen, but a shopping mall parking lot can be scary as hell with silent cars creeplng around, backing out of parking stalls, or unattentively looking for one in a chaotic, unregulated arena..
Though anywhere in the world, isn't it common sense to give way to thru traffic including pedestrians if one is going to turn across their path. If you are approaching a pedestrian from behind you can see the pedestrian and his or her intended path in your field of vision well before the pedestrian is aware of your presence or see you since they are facing forward in their direction of travel as wel. So it only makes sense for a driver to allow him or her to go first just like you would let drivers in another lane to go first before you turn or merge across them. Unless of course the pedestrian is facing a red signal. The other issue is how the back wheel follows a shorter path than the front wheels should a driver decide to cut in front of them.
It appears some people just cannot grasp the concept. I heard this is particularly a problem faced by pedestrians in the UK. The scenario is covered under rule 170 though it is not a tickable offense unlike if a driver runs a red light. This can surprise some tourists from mainland Europe and North America when a driver decides to beat the person on the sidewalk/pavement instead letting them go first.
Also if a driver are approaching an intersection/junction where they are expected to give way to traffic on that cross road either by sign or otherwise pedestrians, bicycles, and other vulnerable road users are traffic too therefore shouldn't the driver approaching that intersection/junction give way to them same way the driver would give way to cars, buses, and trucks passing through the intersection? Particularly if they are facing a Stop, Yield, or Give way sign or going to have to pass a dropped curb or mouth of a driveway?
It depends on what is happening and what you consider right of way.
In the US, if you hit a pedestrian, you are liable and possibly criminally liable. So ped sort of has the right of way.
If the ped is blocking your lane, you cannot run them over to keep going. So they have the right of way.
If the ped is jaywalking or outside the cross walk or crossing against the light/crossing flasher, and you do nto hit them they can get a ticket but you will not so you have the right of way.
In a striped cross walk if a pedestrian is in the crosswalk, even on inch off the curb, you may not enter the cross walk, you must stop, They have the absolute right of way.
I many states if a pedestrian is walking down the street they might get a ticket. However if you squeeze past them, you will get a ticket.
In some places and some types of road, the pedestrian has the same rights as a car or bicycle.
Generally on freeways, pedestrians are not allowed. However it you hit them, you will be legally liable except under special conditions.
Under the laws of physics the car absolutely always has the right of way.
I disagree about the freeway. The pedestrian would get a ticket for walking on the freeway. The motorist would not get a ticket. So I believe that would put most of the fault with the pedestrian.
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