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When people who love the rotary (including I) say they want it to return, powering a generator as an extender to an EV isn't exactly what they were thinking...
The rotary engine is a really interesting design. I figured they stopped making it because of its tendency to be a little less fuel efficient. I don't think that's a good reason to stop.
The rotary engine is a really interesting design. I figured they stopped making it because of its tendency to be a little less fuel efficient. I don't think that's a good reason to stop.
There are other reasons beyond fuel efficiency....
They burn oil by design (need oil in the combustion chambers to lubricate the apex seals and tip seals) making them really hard to clean up for pollution reasons. The last versions weren't really reliable, either, and boosted ones (in order to make reasonable power out of them) end up being as large and heavy as piston engines and even less reliable. Stock early ones (12A and 13B normally aspirated) were great little engines, with smooth power delivery and high redlines (though they didn't make a lot of power). And easy enough to rebuild on your kitchen table (warning, do not try this at home, married folk!). But they also used a lot of oil (there were oil injectors in the carburators to supply the seals with lubrication), so if you didn't stay on top of the oil levels, they did spit out apex seals and tip seals with regularity.
Really? I know they are cheaper to make than cylinder engines. I haven't heard anything else about them. What are these other reasons?
A lot of it is misconceptions and lack of understand by the consumers what comes with a design focused on lightweight and performance as its tenants. Things like it "burns oil"... well yes. but as designed and that oil level must be maintained. among other things. There's plenty of talk online regarding adv/dis of rotary. If properly invested, I believe the design could be improved to be closer to the consumer experience of a traditional piston engine... but that investment was just never a priority. Its unique design also makes it harder for a regular consumer to just take it to any garage in town for repairs and proper maintenance. I believe this is why Mazda really only used them in their performance cars in the RX line... targeting the performance enthusiasts that have a better understanding of what they are buying. That doesn't help the bottom line though as SUVs gain prominence and sports cars take the back seat.
IMO, there is nothing like spending time behind a proper rotary... Keep in mind none of the ones driven / owned was a daily driver... they did require an eye on regular maintenance (oil starvation was death).
Another friend of mine also mentioned that you couldn't just swap in a rotary very easily due to design (drive shaft). With certain manufacturers vehicles you had a choice of engines. In this case, you couldn't manufacture a single vehicle with a choice of v6, v8, and rotary in a single designed engine bay without dealing with some complications. So again... less opportunity for the rotary engine in consumer driven product lines.
Another friend of mine also mentioned that you couldn't just swap in a rotary very easily due to design (drive shaft). With certain manufacturers vehicles you had a choice of engines. In this case, you couldn't manufacture a single vehicle with a choice of v6, v8, and rotary in a single designed engine bay without dealing with some complications. So again... less opportunity for the rotary engine in consumer driven product lines.
Except that early on, the Mazdas with rotary engines were also available with 4 cyls in the same body shells (you could get the RX2 in coupe, sedan and wagon bodies, but with the piston engine it was named 616 in the US. The RX3 was available in coupe, sedan and wagon form, but with the piston engine it was known as the 808 in the US). The engine bay designed for a rotary was actually pretty easy to put a piston engine in, due to how wide the rotary was at its base (with the exhaust coming out the side). And while I had an R100, RX2, 2 RX3s and 3 RX7s, I found it quite easy and effective to mount a Ford 302 in my last RX7 (an FC) with room to spare (and it weighed less than doing a 3 rotor conversion OR a turbo 13B setup).
A lot of it is misconceptions and lack of understand by the consumers what comes with a design focused on lightweight and performance as its tenants. Things like it "burns oil"... well yes. but as designed and that oil level must be maintained. among other things. There's plenty of talk online regarding adv/dis of rotary. If properly invested, I believe the design could be improved to be closer to the consumer experience of a traditional piston engine... but that investment was just never a priority. Its unique design also makes it harder for a regular consumer to just take it to any garage in town for repairs and proper maintenance. I believe this is why Mazda really only used them in their performance cars in the RX line... targeting the performance enthusiasts that have a better understanding of what they are buying. That doesn't help the bottom line though as SUVs gain prominence and sports cars take the back seat.
IMO, there is nothing like spending time behind a proper rotary... Keep in mind none of the ones driven / owned was a daily driver... they did require an eye on regular maintenance (oil starvation was death).
Another friend of mine also mentioned that you couldn't just swap in a rotary very easily due to design (drive shaft). With certain manufacturers vehicles you had a choice of engines. In this case, you couldn't manufacture a single vehicle with a choice of v6, v8, and rotary in a single designed engine bay without dealing with some complications. So again... less opportunity for the rotary engine in consumer driven product lines.
That's interesting I've only ever worked on two of these in my entire career as a mechanic. But I was never scared of new things as long as I had a spec book. Both of them needed new seals after over 100,000 mi which is not that big a deal. I found them to be incredibly simple. I've never driven one. But I do get that mechanics are nervous about it going into something without any experience can be intimidating. I was also the kind of guy that really didn't like taking shortcuts.
Yeah and there's a trend away from performance enthusiasts. At least that I've noticed I don't come across too many people anymore that nor interested in auto racing or Motorsports of any kind. NASCAR and other forms of auto racing are losing fanbase. I graduated high school in 2001, and kind of in your teen years is where you gain the appreciation for Motorsports and there wasn't many people they were into it when I was there.
I also get having to build the car around it.
These are things I would not have thought of
Thanks for your insight
Except that early on, the Mazdas with rotary engines were also available with 4 cyls in the same body shells (you could get the RX2 in coupe, sedan and wagon bodies, but with the piston engine it was named 616 in the US. The RX3 was available in coupe, sedan and wagon form, but with the piston engine it was known as the 808 in the US). The engine bay designed for a rotary was actually pretty easy to put a piston engine in, due to how wide the rotary was at its base (with the exhaust coming out the side). And while I had an R100, RX2, 2 RX3s and 3 RX7s, I found it quite easy and effective to mount a Ford 302 in my last RX7 (an FC) with room to spare (and it weighed less than doing a 3 rotor conversion OR a turbo 13B setup).
However the drive shaft came more in the center rather than towards the bottom of the engine.... I surmise that the tight compact engine compartments of the modern vehicles today is at play here... which explains why it was "early on".
I'm not claiming to be an expert here though... I've never attempted such a swap. I do know swapping a rotary in an early NA Miata is no small task. Some say stuffing a small v8 into a miata was far less complicated.
However the drive shaft came more in the center rather than towards the bottom of the engine.... I surmise that the tight compact engine compartments of the modern vehicles today is at play here... which explains why it was "early on".
I'm not claiming to be an expert here though... I've never attempted such a swap. I do know swapping a rotary in an early NA Miata is no small task. Some say stuffing a small v8 into a miata was far less complicated.
Yeah, I think the issue was that the engine bay design for the rotary car was easy to put a piston engine in, but an engine bay designed around a piston engine was MUCH harder to put a rotary in. So the early cars were all designed to house the rotary, which made them easy to get a piston engine in them. Later piston engine Mazdas tended to be transverse FWD, which complicated things even further due to the way the crank was centered in the back of the rotary engine and the exhaust was out the side of the wider engine at the crank level.
I have to admit when I created this poll I knew Miata would win but not by this much. After reading everyones posts, I switch my vote so that makes the spread even more. I like the 124's look but like Miatas performance.
I still like the 124. I like the turbo. But I live a ways above sea level. Some forced air induction is a good thing. I’m over the roadster idea for the moment. If I had the space to park one, yes, I’d like to have one.
I’ve heard the stories of Fiat and get the “fit it again, tony” mantra. However, my experience with two later model Jeeps with Fiat influence have been positive.
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