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because you are supposed to save money by charging hybrid battery off electricity and then driving whatever range you can on that charge.
What does make sense when you charge overnight at home, then you pay very little for those miles driven.
Not in case of my poster - he was offered to pay 40c a mile at a quick charger.
I had 2 hybrids and, to be honest, entire plug in thing is a gimmick to me. You have a vehicle that is continuously recharging its traction battery as you drive. What else do you need?
And I do understand that any hybrid will beat my 98 Grand Marquis mpg, I am not questioning that. But it was very ironic to read that proud owner of the latest and the greatest in hybrid technology (to the tune of around $35K price tag) will pay more per mile than proud owner of $1500 civil version of cop car.
I could almost read his thoughts - WDF did I even buy it? To be ripped off at charging station?
I guess my point was that the anecdotal Prius Prime with a slow 3.3kW on-board charger at an anecdotal fast charging station does not really represent the average experience. Here you have a car that lacks the ability to fast-DC charge being quoted at a typical fast-DC session price. So the premise is off from the beginning. That would be like saying my Duramax is expensive to operate per mile because nitrous oxide costs $5 per pound...turbodiesel is not compatible with NOS.
PHEV can be great for folks with short daily commutes/errands while maintaining the ability to travel long distances. They aren't for everyone but they accommodate more driving needs than BEV. BTW, the Prius Prime should charge in about 2.5hrs given the 3.3kW on-board charger; 5hrs with a standard 120V outlet. That $9.50 cited does not seem possible because the Prius cannot fast charge. And if it was possible at that price, no one would be willing to pay $1.21 per kWh...which is about 6-7 times the national average.
I had 2 hybrids and, to be honest, entire plug in thing is a gimmick to me. You have a vehicle that is continuously recharging its traction battery as you drive. What else do you need?
Volts and Claritys and the newer PHEVs do NOT charge the traction battery back up as you drive. In order to get full charge you HAVE to plug in, as they are EVs with a generator to get you home on. This is fundamentally different than Priuses or other standard hybrids.
In the Volt's case, the generator holds the battery charge at whatever point it is when the generator starts, and you ALWAYS drive off the traction battery (it never drives the wheels unless using Mountain Mode or if the battery is fully depleted AND you need full throttle). In the 2011 and 2012 models, you don't get a choice, you run off the traction battery until it runs out, then the generator kicks in to get you around. In the 2013-newer, you can turn on the generator at any point. So lets say you use the traction battery to get around town and when you get to the highway with, say, 28 miles of range left, you can switch on the generator and "hold" that 28 miles of range until you get back off the highway and turn off the generator. You're still not driving the wheels with the generator, you're still using the traction battery to drive with, it's just that the generator puts in enough juice to hold the battery charge at that level (and will cycle on and off to do so).
So the Volt is an EV with an on board generator to get you home with.
Priuses (and other regular hybrids) are much different in that they are gasoline cars with electric assist (and small batteries to boot, so that the gas engine CAN charge them back up while driving). The Prius Prime straddles that line as it can go much farther and faster on it's traction battery. So it's really halfway between a regular Prius and a Volt.
I guess my point was that the anecdotal Prius Prime with a slow 3.3kW on-board charger at an anecdotal fast charging station does not really represent the average experience. Here you have a car that lacks the ability to fast-DC charge being quoted at a typical fast-DC session price. So the premise is off from the beginning. That would be like saying my Duramax is expensive to operate per mile because nitrous oxide costs $5 per pound...turbodiesel is not compatible with NOS.
PHEV can be great for folks with short daily commutes/errands while maintaining the ability to travel long distances. They aren't for everyone but they accommodate more driving needs than BEV. BTW, the Prius Prime should charge in about 2.5hrs given the 3.3kW on-board charger; 5hrs with a standard 120V outlet. That $9.50 cited does not seem possible because the Prius cannot fast charge. And if it was possible at that price, no one would be willing to pay $1.21 per kWh...which is about 6-7 times the national average.
Sure.
You read this, right:
And I do understand that any hybrid will beat my 98 Grand Marquis mpg, I am not questioning that.
It's the irony of PHEV owner, when he for some reason decides to use supercharger (Why?) to be slammed with per mile cost higher than old timer grandma car with V8.
Now, THAT is anecdotal.
Volts and Claritys and the newer PHEVs do NOT charge the traction battery back up as you drive. In order to get full charge you HAVE to plug in, as they are EVs with a generator to get you home on. This is fundamentally different than Priuses or other standard hybrids.
In the Volt's case, the generator holds the battery charge at whatever point it is when the generator starts, and you ALWAYS drive off the traction battery (it never drives the wheels unless using Mountain Mode or if the battery is fully depleted AND you need full throttle). In the 2011 and 2012 models, you don't get a choice, you run off the traction battery until it runs out, then the generator kicks in to get you around. In the 2013-newer, you can turn on the generator at any point. So lets say you use the traction battery to get around town and when you get to the highway with, say, 28 miles of range left, you can switch on the generator and "hold" that 28 miles of range until you get back off the highway and turn off the generator. You're still not driving the wheels with the generator, you're still using the traction battery to drive with, it's just that the generator puts in enough juice to hold the battery charge at that level (and will cycle on and off to do so).
So the Volt is an EV with an on board generator to get you home with.
Priuses (and other regular hybrids) are much different in that they are gasoline cars with electric assist (and small batteries to boot, so that the gas engine CAN charge them back up while driving). The Prius Prime straddles that line as it can go much farther and faster on it's traction battery. So it's really halfway between a regular Prius and a Volt.
Are you sure?
I see no difference from regular hybrids, in principle. Generator driving car to take you home? Seriously?
Up to 420 miles†of total range with a full charge and a full tank of gas
Not sure if 53 miles is enough to get you back and forth? The Volt plug-in hybrid has a backup plan. If you go over 53 miles, Volt seamlessly switches over to gas to extend your range, giving you the peace of mind to go hundreds of miles farther. https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/volt-plug-in-hybrid
While driving, after the Volt battery has dropped to a predetermined threshold from full charge, a small naturally aspirated 1.4 L 4-cylinder gasoline fueled internal combustion engine (Opel's Family 0[66]) with approximately 80 hp (60 kW), powers a 55 kW generator to extend the Volt's range. The vehicle also has a regenerative braking system. The electrical power from the generator is sent primarily to the electric motor, with the excess going to the batteries, depending on the state of charge (SOC) of the battery pack and the power demanded at the wheels.
You don't NEED to, but a lot of PHEV drivers, especially Volts and Claritys, tend to take great pride in how far they've driven never using the gas generator. so you often see them tend to use the L2 chargers out and about to keep from having to use the gas. I tend not to, as even on L2, the Volt doesn't charge very fast, so you don't get much back out of it, especially if you're just at the grocery store and only get in 15-20 minutes of charge (which is like 3-4 miles, big deal).
I'm sure you know, but forgot to say, that charging the battery with mains power provides a much lower cost-per-mile than using the gas engine. So with a PIHV, you want to take any free charge you are offered, you can't beat free. Although you don't want to do more work than an hour's worth of free charging is worth, as you say, it's not worth much.
Where I work, there is a big solar bank that powers charging stations. Unfortunately this power costs a lot more than regular mains power in town, so not many people use it. I will say our financial people know their business very well, and we (as a company) are required to price the solar power at cost-recovery. Just that cost-recovery is higher than you might think.
Are you sure?
I see no difference from regular hybrids, in principle. Generator driving car to take you home? Seriously?
Up to 420 miles†of total range with a full charge and a full tank of gas
Not sure if 53 miles is enough to get you back and forth? The Volt plug-in hybrid has a backup plan. If you go over 53 miles, Volt seamlessly switches over to gas to extend your range, giving you the peace of mind to go hundreds of miles farther. https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/volt-plug-in-hybrid
While driving, after the Volt battery has dropped to a predetermined threshold from full charge, a small naturally aspirated 1.4 L 4-cylinder gasoline fueled internal combustion engine (Opel's Family 0[66]) with approximately 80 hp (60 kW), powers a 55 kW generator to extend the Volt's range. The vehicle also has a regenerative braking system. The electrical power from the generator is sent primarily to the electric motor, with the excess going to the batteries, depending on the state of charge (SOC) of the battery pack and the power demanded at the wheels.
That's basic in series hybrid.
No, it's a parallel hybrid. If you took the engine out of a Prius, you would not go anywhere. If you took it out of the Volt, you'd have a BEV that ran for 50 miles on a charge. That's a HUGE difference. Seriously I HAVE ONE. the generator does not drive the wheels. In a Prius, the engine DOES in fact drive the wheels while it's running. AND charges the tiny battery back up.
The Volt is essentially the same as a locomotive in that the engine is just a generator. Once you run out of battery power, yes, it does provide enough juice to drive the car, but it does NOT charge the battery back up and you MUST plug in to get that 50 miles back. Yes, I'm sure.
No, it's a parallel hybrid. If you took the engine out of a Prius, you would not go anywhere. If you took it out of the Volt, you'd have a BEV that ran for 50 miles on a charge. That's a HUGE difference. Seriously I HAVE ONE. the generator does not drive the wheels. In a Prius, the engine DOES in fact drive the wheels while it's running. AND charges the tiny battery back up.
The Volt is essentially the same as a locomotive in that the engine is just a generator. Once you run out of battery power, yes, it does provide enough juice to drive the car, but it does NOT charge the battery back up and you MUST plug in to get that 50 miles back. Yes, I'm sure.
Isn't there certain conditions where the engine can directly assist the electric motor, such as WOT combined with a low battery? It seems like I've read somewhere about a clutch that engages in the planetary gearset or something.
Isn't there certain conditions where the engine can directly assist the electric motor, such as WOT combined with a low battery? It seems like I've read somewhere about a clutch that engages in the planetary gearset or something.
Yes, under WOT and a depleted battery (which is never fully depleted, BTW) it can help the traction motor drive the wheels, and in a special mode called "mountain mode" designed for going up steep grades. But in both those rare cases, the engine is merely assisting the battery and traction motor in driving the wheels. It's still not a gas engine car with battery assist, like a Prius or Accord Hybrid or other normal hybrid. It is a pretty sophisticated system and it's actually a bit surprising that it works as well as it does, and that it's not been a point of failure in the cars out there on the road. GM did a really good job with it.
And I do understand that any hybrid will beat my 98 Grand Marquis mpg, I am not questioning that.
It's the irony of PHEV owner, when he for some reason decides to use supercharger (Why?) to be slammed with per mile cost higher than old timer grandma car with V8.
Now, THAT is anecdotal.
Don't tell Volvo that. They have multiple PHEVs that use superchargers on the market.
If your point is Tesla's Supercharger network, well, it can only be used by Tesla vehicles and Tesla does not make PHEVs.
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