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cough cough... Truck frames... unintended acceleration... contracting with Takata for airbags... cough cough
Yep. The Toyota of today isn't the Toyota of the 1990s, and even that rep was highly overrated. Their frames broke in half due to rust just as badly as Ford pickup frames did.
I'm not sure if you were being facetious. I thought so until I hit your last sentence. Which confused me....
Do ICE owners not have garages? I mean, I've always had one regardless what type of car I had...
To be fair - the study is solely on "fueling" costs. So maintenance, etc. isn't being considered.
To be fair-you need to look at all costs when comparing different technology.
Yea, the study is no where close to my costs and is far from the results that are shown in Edmunds about True Cost to Own that shows EVs about 30% less than similar ICE. Kind of looks like a study done by the ICE manufacturers, cherry picking costs that few actually see. They said - "There are four additional costs to powering EVs beyond electricity: cost of a home charger, commercial charging, the EV tax and "deadhead" miles."
Cost of home charger - My cost to add a charging plug was under $100 at both my houses - charges at 40 amps. I also used an electric dryer outlet for the first year, only cost was $20 for a plug adapter - charged at 24 amps. When I charge in CA, it is at $0.09/kw, in NV it is $0.044 - less than $10 in CA and $4.5 in NV to fill to 100% - cost to fill with gas same distance would be about 5x more. Also, since on EV rates, it drops my electricity costs for other things - my cost of electricity actually went down when added the EVs even though use more electricity.
Commercial charging - When I charge commercially, it is at no cost (free with car) and Tesla tells you before you get there if chargers are out - I have never paid for commercial charging in over 100K miles.
EV tax - Didn't have extra tax or registration fees in CA or NV but did get $7500 in federal rebates and $2000 from CA for 2 EVs, $3750 for the 3rd (bought in NV).
Deadhead miles - driving around trying to find a commercial charger - never did that with 4 EVs and over 100K EV miles, the car shows the chargers and status.
At the end of the day - I know my costs are significantly less than for an equivalent ICE - it is not even close. When I drive between SD and LV, my cost is only fill at each home so about $12 round trip, with ICE it is about $120. When I visit my mom in SF, my cost for the trip is $9 in an EV vs over $200 in ICE.
Yea, they had the average non-luxury EV driver spending on average $600 dollars for the installation of a level 1 charger--a standard outlet. Then they had an average of $1600 for a level 2 charger. They also estimated an average of almost 5 minute time cost for plugging and unplugging into the home charger every day (well, 25 days on average a month). Does it take you about 5 minutes each day to plug and unplug your vehicle in at home?
It's likely the person making the report knows pretty well how ridiculous this is, but how are you going to get all the clicks if you don't say something ridiculous?
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 10-25-2021 at 07:06 AM..
I'm not sure if you were being facetious. I thought so until I hit your last sentence. Which confused me....
Do ICE owners not have garages? I mean, I've always had one regardless what type of car I had...
I did not have a garage until I was 32, when I built my house. Not only are there a lot of vehicles that set outside in my area, there are a lot of vehicles that are parked on the streets of Wooster. Even in a climate was cold as Wayne county, Ohio, having a garage for each vehicle is not a given, even for single family detached homes.
I live in a neighborhood of old houses, and some of my neighbors still have 60 amp service, for the entire house. The video from ford regarding the lightning pickup said they can charge at home at 80/amps.. If even 5% of the neighbors buy plug-ins, the grid in my area is going boom in short order. They can’t even handle the load of air conditioning as it is.
My utility company isn’t bashful about finding excuses to raise rates either.. “OMG, demand is dropping, raise the rates!”.. a few years later, “OMG, demand is increasing, raise the rates!”..
That was one of the problems I ran into when I was looking for a home decades ago. The homes in my price range would have required extensive electrical upgrades just to add air conditioning. I ended up buying land, and then building a home. I went with 200 amp service, which turned out to be a good idea when the high efficiency oil furnace quit running. I was able to install an electric furnace without further upgrades. I did the wiring myself, got the county permit and inspection.
If I were to go with an electric vehicle, I would have to upgrade to 300 amp service. At the age of 65 and driving just over 3000 miles a year, this would never pay off. For the same reason, when I replaced my roofs in 2017, I went with fiberglass shingles instead of metal roofs.
In reading thru this and similar threads, it seems that people fall into one of two camps-- those who see EVs as having niches where they make sense and those who seem to think EVs are always vastly superior to ICEs and that everyone needs an EV.
Do you think it has to do with the difference between reasoned thinking vs ideological thinking with a dash of Cognitive Dissonance thrown in?
I live in a neighborhood of old houses, and some of my neighbors still have 60 amp service, for the entire house. The video from ford regarding the lightning pickup said they can charge at home at 80/amps.. If even 5% of the neighbors buy plug-ins, the grid in my area is going boom in short order. They can’t even handle the load of air conditioning as it is.
My utility company isn’t bashful about finding excuses to raise rates either.. “OMG, demand is dropping, raise the rates!”.. a few years later, “OMG, demand is increasing, raise the rates!”..
Don't forget to add the...."OMG, people want to generate their own power at home with solar....make it harder for them!" and "OMG, people want to install batteries to avoid peak pricing...make it really hard for them"
I think there is one constant...regardless of which side of the EV thing you are on....
Given the choice of never having to stop at a gas station ever again - most everyone would say yes. They just aren't pleasant places.
To be fair-you need to look at all costs when comparing different technology.
I never said YOU shouldn't. But the study isn't about the total cost of ownership. Which would be a whole different discussion.
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