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It's hard to go back to older cars if you driven newer cars. A lot of older cars are also more dangerous, I would never drive older CRV or Civics. They are tincan, the structural rigidity is weaker than same size Subaru.
Newer cars not only more rigidity they also handle far better, less body rolls, and brakes work better. I can tell in many older cars the brake pressure just not good at all.
I drive my car until it’s too expensive to repair. I have a 2008 Toyota Corolla with 66k miles on it. Being retired I only drive about 4K a year. This is probably my last car unless some moron totals it. I have only had to do routine maintenance and tires/brakes.
We drive 2 cars - 90 GMC 4X4 shortbed and 08 CR-V. 400,000 miles and 200,000 miles. Had the GMC since 90 and the CR-V since '10.
This week I had to replace the rack and pinion steering actuator on the CR-V and since it still had the original struts I had those replaced, too. Couple of years ago I replaced the AC compressor. Everything else done is just maintenance.
Got it home, washed it, and put it in the garage.
I am not going to sell either one. The CR-V is almost pristine from being garage kept and well maintained. The truck draws attention because if its age and condition. Not pristine, either, but pretty darn good.
A long time ago I heard an engineer comment that if cars were maintained like airplanes they would last forever. That's gotta be true, but I don't go that far! So far, it has paid big dividends. Haven't had a car payment in many years.
Anyone else intent on keeping their perfectly good car well maintained and plan on driving it forever?
Here's one thing that may keep you from driving a car forever. Corrosion.
Maybe if you live in the desert that's not an issue but if you live anywhere that uses salt in the winter, or live near the ocean, it's just a matter of time before there will be a corrosion related failure either in the underbody or in the suspension.
I had a Honda Pilot with 240,000 miles, which I was hoping to drive forever. Then one day going over a bump I heard a loud POP from somewhere in the rear. Upon inspection, discovered that the rear subframe had pulled completely through the cross-member which had corroded internally - a defect invisible from the outside.
It was unrepairable, since that crossmember is an integral part of the underbody. Cutting out the old one and patching in a new one would significantly degrade the structural integrity of the unibody.
Unlike airplanes which are largely aluminum and titanium, auto bodies and suspensions are mostly steel. And steel will eventually corrode.
I have been driving my 1999 SR5 since 2020,now has 211000 miles,all lights are original,all mechanicals original,AC went thru 16 years of FL.,rear brake shoes original.I went to motor vehicle today to add my daughter as benefisury,i havent driven it in 2-3 years,daughter does that for me.A fine running 4 cyl.I did have to replace catylitic converter.
I am 89 and feel I have maybe 3-4 years left,Just lost my wife after 67 years,my self crippled up by Moderma booster since Dec 15th 2021,pointing toward Femoral artery nerve damage,my next choice is for Neuropathy,legs ache bad enough to make you cry,Vascular Surgeon yesterday checked blood flow,said o'k,wrapped legs for blood pressure and toes said even pressure from knee to toe.
Problem probably damaged Femoral artery nerve damage.
The closest I've been able to decipher, is the Dodge/Chrysler slant six may go down in history, as the engine that lasts and lasts and lasts. (Unless you heat it up.)
They may not be very powerful, but they sure do last.
Listener2307 -
Yes, I plan to keep my '08 Acura TL until I can no longer get OEM parts for it. I have done all the scheduled maintenance and made repairs as necessary. The Silver Shadow has 120k miles on it and is due for another timing belt in about a year. It drives the same as it did when I bought it in 2008. It's much cheaper to maintain and repair. To get a new one with a V-6 (which was in my base model in 2008) would now be $45k (if cars weren't going for over MSRP right now). So what if I pay about $1,500 per year to maintain my car. I haven't had a car payment since 2001 (when I paid off the previous car in 18 months). I hate car payments.
My favorite car is "paid for."
I replaced my 27 year old Mitsubishi TV in 2007 with another Mitsubishi 1080p TV. I still have that too.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKTwet
It's hard to go back to older cars if you driven newer cars. ... Newer cars not only more rigidity they also handle far better, less body rolls, and brakes work better. I can tell in many older cars the brake pressure just not good at all.
more rigidity? That's a new one for this Mech Engineer... New cars are 'crumple' / throw -away after accident. This is not a bad thing, unless you are keen on your Physical Therapist and Othopedic and Back surgeon. It's best to throw away a 'plastic' car before it is 10 yrs old anyway. UV will kill it if an accident (or slight bump) doesn't break it first.
I'm fully aware my older cars are more dangerous than new, but that's my informed choice. If I need a safer car, I can drive my Kenworth (it's rigid, but has enough mass to displace the momentum of most other vehicles who are willing to hit me). Just don't hit another Mack or a Peterbilt!
Handling? Yes tunable sport handling and anti-lock brakes are safer. But I like FUN and 'engaged' high speed driving, So I'm fine tuning my old beater's suspension. I have SCCA series suspension kits on my daily drivers. They handle my mtns and switchbacks 2-4x daily. Very well indeed!
Subaru? "tincan" ?
Yes indeed. How many Subie body panels have you welded in? They are very tricky (because they are so much whimpier / thinner than other makes (As are almost all new cars (thinner = lighter, plus more FLEX and best for crumple).) Gotta run very low power stitch welds.
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 09-23-2022 at 10:45 PM..
Not to mention that eventually, the down-time for the maintenance becomes prohibitive for some.
Yes, you reach the point where there is always something wrong with the vehicle. And as others have mentioned, for those of us living in the salt belt, the bodies become unsafe before the drivetrains are worn out.
more rigidity? That's a new one for this Mech Engineer... New cars are 'crumple' / throw -away after accident. This is not a bad thing, unless you are keen on your Physical Therapist and Othopedic and Back surgeon. It's best to throw away a 'plastic' car before it is 10 yrs old anyway. UV will kill it if an accident (or slight bump) doesn't break it first.
I'm fully aware my older cars are more dangerous than new, but that's my informed choice. If I need a safer car, I can drive my Kenworth (it's rigid, but has enough mass to displace the momentum of most other vehicles who are willing to hit me). Just don't hit another Mack or a Peterbilt!
Handling? Yes tunable sport handling and anti-lock brakes are safer. But I like FUN and 'engaged' high speed driving, So I'm fine tuning my old beater's suspension. I have SCCA series suspension kits on my daily drivers. They handle my mtns and switchbacks 2-4x daily. Very well indeed!
Subaru? "tincan" ?
Yes indeed. How many Subie body panels have you welded in? They are very tricky (because they are so much whimpier / thinner than other makes (As are almost all new cars (thinner = lighter, plus more FLEX and best for crumple).) Gotta run very low power stitch welds.
Newer passenger vehicles do have stiffer structures. Older cars used mild steel. With each generation, newer vehicles make greater use of high strength steels and ultrahigh strength steels, including boron steels. These steels aren't used in the skins, they are used in the underlying framework, which provides structural support as well as crash safety to maintain the integrity of the passenger compartment and keep occupants from being crushed.
The image below happens to be a 2021 CRV. Note that the tensile strength of the steels used in different parts of the structure range from 270-1500Mpa tensile strength - a BIG difference in properties. Each manufacturer has their own structural architecture and material schedule designed as part of their shared "vehicle platform". The higher grades of steel are specially heat treated and body shops shouldn't heat them with a torch when doing collision repair or they will weaken the material, compromising safety - the restrictions per grade and part location are made available to body shops by manufacturers. Newer vehicles are more difficult to do collision repair on for this reason and are more likely to be "totalled", although passengers are more likely to survive.
The all-new 2019 Subaru Forester for example, when it was moved to their new global platform, achieved: "70-100% increase in structural rigidity - 90 percent more chassis front lateral flexural rigidity, 70 percent more chassis torsional rigidity, 70 percent more front suspension rigidity and 100 percent more rear subframe rigidity." In addition to greater crash safety, handling is improved, and noise, vibration and harshness are reduced.
P.S. Volvo has always prided themselves on leading in safety design. The image below is of their 2017 XC60 structure. Unfortunately they don't include the actual tensile strengths on the diagram, but it's apparent that in this structure the use of ultrahigh strength steel continues from the A-pillar, down the firewall, through the sill and back up the C-pillar, forming a continuous structure of UHSS from the leading edge to the trailing edge of the passenger compartment. They also make use of more transverse members of very high strength steel. Both of these features will improve the ability to survive side impacts.
Last edited by OutdoorLover; 09-24-2022 at 07:28 AM..
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Of course 'structure" is far different than the "shell". It's much cheaper to use high strength and heat treated components on "structure and suspension". Those portions are rigid at their point of use, but have crumple zones / interface connections that will absorb energy in a collision. (Thus benefiting passengers, not the vehicle).
This makes the decision easier to throw away, vs repair a modern vehicle after a collision. Good for passenger safety, great for manufacturer, contrary to the theme of "driving them forever". Just like those who hate to travel, expressing their disgust on "travel threads". Not relevant, but it makes for good drama.
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).) Gotta run very low power stitch welds.
