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Coming to a complete stop doesn't necessarily prevent a crash. I have seen plenty of dashcam videos where a driver comes to a complete stop, and then proceeds into cross traffic without yielding.
The problem is improper use of stop signs. They should be yield signs with emphasis on yielding.
Here is a better one that was just uploaded yesterday. I see videos like this on YouTube everyday. The car clearly comes to a complete stop, and then pulls out and causes a crash.
The solution is YIELD, not stop. Stop signs are just a revenue generator for the government, like speeding tickets. It doesn't do anything to improve the safety of the roads.
I don't know what makes you think that someone who manages to crash after a stop sign would fare any better with a yield sign. Clearly they just aren't really paying attention when driving.
I don't know what makes you think that someone who manages to crash after a stop sign would fare any better with a yield sign. Clearly they just aren't really paying attention when driving.
My point is that coming to a complete stop does not increase safety. An attentive driver can slow down look both directions find an opening and safely roll right through the stop sign. A distracted driver might see the stop sign come to a complete stop, and then enter the intersection without ever looking for cross traffic.
Technically the driver in that last video that caused the crash, violated no traffic regulations. He fulfilled the requirements under the law and came to a complete stop. But good driving is a lot more complicated than just coming to a complete stop at a stop sign.
The real problem is that 99% of the Stop Signs in this country should be replaced with Yield Signs. Which would conform to how it is in most of the rest of the world. But that would cost local governments billions of dollars in lost traffic ticket revenue, so probably won't happen.
A driver should be concentrating on yielding to all cross traffic and not focused on coming to a complete stop.
And why they aren't enforced?
Most cops know by now that they just waste their time and energy. Plentiful of lawyers will happily contest just about everything. They have the power and means to lie, twist the facts and hold on a miniscule chance that perhaps it was a ...cop fault, not the driver.
And they mostly win.
We created that monster.
...
That is cute. Lawyers do not handle traffic tickets. The fine is in the hundreds, a lawyer costs thousands. Unless you are very wealthy and cannot be bothered to take the time to show up in court personally, no one is going to hire a lawyer for a traffic ticket.
No lawyers do not hold on to a minuscule chance - because in fact you usually will not win. Thus, it is a waste of a client's money to bring anything to court that does not have a good chance of winning. No good lawyer will waste their client's time and money like that, and contrary to all the jokes, most lawyers are good lawyers. However the general public does have a lot more exposure to the bad ones. They are the ones working cheap and in practice areas that do not pay well, which are the practice areas with the most public exposure.
My point is that coming to a complete stop does not increase safety. An attentive driver can slow down look both directions find an opening and safely roll right through the stop sign. A distracted driver might see the stop sign come to a complete stop, and then enter the intersection without ever looking for cross traffic.
Technically the driver in that last video that caused the crash, violated no traffic regulations. He fulfilled the requirements under the law and came to a complete stop. But good driving is a lot more complicated than just coming to a complete stop at a stop sign.
The real problem is that 99% of the Stop Signs in this country should be replaced with Yield Signs. Which would conform to how it is in most of the rest of the world. But that would cost local governments billions of dollars in lost traffic ticket revenue, so probably won't happen.
A driver should be concentrating on yielding to all cross traffic and not focused on coming to a complete stop.
I think the idea is that even folks who may not come down to a full stop at a stop sign but will slown down significantly (i.e. the 'rolling stop' people talk about) would probably take a yield sign as an encouragement to slow down less or not at all. We all perceive "stop" as a stronger sign than "yield".
I'd say I encounter most "yield" signs at off-ramps and intersections involving significant roads and instinctively it basically generates the feeling 'watch out, there's cross-traffic at speed'. Meanwhile I encounter stop signs far more commonly in residential neighborhoods where it's obvious that pedestrian protection is a significant part of the purpose. I know that at least in the community I live in pedestrian-involved crashes play a significant role in determining stop sign placement.
I do feel like on some roads where you may encounter a stop sign just about every other block it undermines their effectiveness. After seeing the 5th stop sign in a few minutes people's attention will drop and they'll be less likely to come to a stop or even near stop.
I think the idea is that even folks who may not come down to a full stop at a stop sign but will slown down significantly (i.e. the 'rolling stop' people talk about) would probably take a yield sign as an encouragement to slow down less or not at all. We all perceive "stop" as a stronger sign than "yield".
I'd say I encounter most "yield" signs at off-ramps and intersections involving significant roads and instinctively it basically generates the feeling 'watch out, there's cross-traffic at speed'. Meanwhile I encounter stop signs far more commonly in residential neighborhoods where it's obvious that pedestrian protection is a significant part of the purpose. I know that at least in the community I live in pedestrian-involved crashes play a significant role in determining stop sign placement.
I do feel like on some roads where you may encounter a stop sign just about every other block it undermines their effectiveness. After seeing the 5th stop sign in a few minutes people's attention will drop and they'll be less likely to come to a stop or even near stop.
No, I think most drivers perceive Stop Signs for what they are, Yield Signs. That's why most experienced driver's just roll through them. The safest way to enter an intersection where you don't have the right of way, regardless of signage, is to roll out slowly into the intersection while looking both ways for cross traffic. This also gives any approaching vehicles which you might not be able to see a heads up, and gives them a chance to take any evasive actions, such as slowing down or changing lanes.
If you just follow the law, stop at the Stop Sign and then take off when you don't see any cross traffic, that is a bad situation. Your sight of an approaching vehicle could be blocked by parked cars. The approaching driver's sight of you will likewise be blocked by the same parked cars, and suddenly you will be right in front of them, and they will have no time to reacts. But if you edge your way slowly into the intersection, and if the other driver is driving defensively, he will see you pulling out and have time to take whatever action necessary to avoid hitting you. Normally that would be just slowing down to give you time to see him, but it could be him slamming on his brakes if necessary. But if you just barrow into the intersection after making a stop, he is going to T_bone your car, no matter what.
Rolling stops are good for everybody, regardless of what our stupid revenue generating laws might say.
That is cute. Lawyers do not handle traffic tickets. The fine is in the hundreds, a lawyer costs thousands. Unless you are very wealthy and cannot be bothered to take the time to show up in court personally, no one is going to hire a lawyer for a traffic ticket.
No lawyers do not hold on to a minuscule chance - because in fact you usually will not win. Thus, it is a waste of a client's money to bring anything to court that does not have a good chance of winning. No good lawyer will waste their client's time and money like that, and contrary to all the jokes, most lawyers are good lawyers. However the general public does have a lot more exposure to the bad ones. They are the ones working cheap and in practice areas that do not pay well, which are the practice areas with the most public exposure.
Traffic ticket lawyers do not cost thousands. My kid got a ticket for 90 in a 45. The lawyer cost $65. Cop didn't show up, and ticket was dismissed. If the cop had shown up, the lawyer was there to negotiate deferred adjudication. It was the same lawyer that my wife hired for a ticket she received. That one was dismissed as well.
In Houston, there ar e number of attorneys that do traffic tickets for under $100.
Traffic ticket lawyers do not cost thousands. My kid got a ticket for 90 in a 45. The lawyer cost $65. Cop didn't show up, and ticket was dismissed. If the cop had shown up, the lawyer was there to negotiate deferred adjudication. It was the same lawyer that my wife hired for a ticket she received. That one was dismissed as well.
In Houston, there ar e number of attorneys that do traffic tickets for under $100.
That is not a normal rate. I remember my dad spending over $400 to get out of a simple traffic ticket, and that was in the 1970s. That would be almost $2,000 today. I was in the courtroom when the judge dismissed the ticket because the prosecutor didn't have any witnesses present.
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"Hey Guys: "Remember they started it""
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Location: Glen Mills
940 posts, read 1,232,382 times
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Yield no stop! I'm thinking that message is didn't mean to slow you down. Lol
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