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People are turning this discussion into a class-warfare/white collar vs. blue collar/college vs. non-college discussion. None of that is relevant.
The only thing that is relevant is - are auto workers being payed a fair salary in our free market system? How do you determine that? Well you compare to the industry and the market - what do they need to pay in an equivalent industry to retain skilled employees, what do they need to pay to remain competitive, and thus the conclusion is obvious. Non-union auto workers, primarily working for foreign car workers in the U.S., make about $20 less an hour with salaries and benefits. That's what the market pays, and that is shown further by the lack of financial difficulty shown by these foreign auto companies compared to domestic.
If UAW workers want to continue employment without meaningful concessions then they have to accept that they are working on the backs of taxpayers, both blue and white collar. They will be a welfare entitlement class of employees, subsidized by the government.
please don't spew false reteric. toyota is losing many as well. read this, Bloomberg.com: Asia
this doesn't all come down to uaw wages it comes down to the value of the dollar, and the retired workers benefits. cost of living in michigan, compared to in the south, etc. please get your facts straight first.
p.s. dd did you ever reply to my statement in thread labeled (gm uaw)
please don't spew false reteric. toyota is losing many as well. read this, Bloomberg.com: Asia
this doesn't all come down to uaw wages it comes down to the value of the dollar, and the retired workers benefits. cost of living in michigan, compared to in the south, etc. please get your facts straight first.
p.s. dd did you ever reply to my statement in thread labeled (gm uaw)
There is no false rethoric. On a US dollar basis GM pays it's employees $70 an hour wages+ benifits, Toyota pays $48 wages + benefits. The regional difference argument of cost of living vs the south is redundant. Is cost of living higher because salaries are higher? Or are salaries higher because cost of living is higher?
All the auto industry is suffering. That is understood. But Toyota is not getting government bail-outs. Kia is actually making a profit. Really this is the solution - pay a livable wage that the market will pay and give line workers bonuses based on performance. Toyota, back when times were good, actually exceeded UAW wages a couple years back, BECAUSE they included bonuses plus the standard wages. It works for everyone and is fair. You wonder why the union won't negotiate something like that.
I can't remember from the other discussion but I think someone argued "hey the UAW already made concessions. Yes they did, I submit they are too little, too late. The union ain't dummies, they knew how to make it look like they made meaningfull conessions when it was really just fluff. Most of them effected new hires (and, obviously, the auto industry is not hiring any new employees), or effected programs that a large number of union workers were not a part of, or would not be effective for 3 more years.
There is no false rethoric. On a US dollar basis GM pays it's employees $70 an hour wages+ benifits, Toyota pays $48 wages + benefits. The regional difference argument of cost of living vs the south is redundant. Is cost of living higher because salaries are higher? Or are salaries higher because cost of living is higher?
All the auto industry is suffering. That is understood. But Toyota is not getting government bail-outs. Kia is actually making a profit. Really this is the solution - pay a livable wage that the market will pay and give line workers bonuses based on performance. Toyota, back when times were good, actually exceeded UAW wages a couple years back, BECAUSE they included bonuses plus the standard wages. It works for everyone and is fair. You wonder why the union won't negotiate something like that.
I can't remember from the other discussion but I think someone argued "hey the UAW already made concessions. Yes they did, I submit they are too little, too late. The union ain't dummies, they knew how to make it look like they made meaningfull conessions when it was really just fluff. Most of them effected new hires (and, obviously, the auto industry is not hiring any new employees), or effected programs that a large number of union workers were not a part of, or would not be effective for 3 more years.
we obviously agree to disagree, because i think your completely wrong and you think the same of me.
my question would be to you. what is an acceptable wage?
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