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I an an engineer as well as a pilot. Pitot tubes have been freezing since the technique was invented.
And you don't seem to understand that the lack of basic flying skills caused these pilots to kill themselves and over 200 others. You do not pull up the nose on a stalled airplane.
I certainly hope I don't happen to fly with you. You know so little you may well put your passengers in danger.
I an an engineer as well as a pilot. Pitot tubes have been freezing since the technique was invented.
And you don't seem to understand that the lack of basic flying skills caused these pilots to kill themselves and over 200 others. You do not pull up the nose on a stalled airplane.
I certainly hope I don't happen to fly with you. You know so little you may well put your passengers in danger.
I'm not 100% on the investigation but I don't think they knew it was stalled. Why I don't know, it was obviously a hole in their training. Remember they do things differently over in the EU.
Again. they did actually fly out of the stall and then climbed back into it. And a senior pilot given the descent rate and the stall horn has to put the nose down. All else is suicidal. Even if you do not have a lot of hours why on earth would you pull up into a stall.
The real findings may be that flying by humans is not viable. Better to keep the machne in control and give the human a limited override.
I fully agree that if programmed correctly the machines will operate with a higher margin of safety than humans being at control. That's what they do best. They don't get tired or forget things.
I think however we have quite a while before machines can be trusted to operate without error and mechanical fault and as of now machines can't really make decisions like a human can. Flying the airplane is a pretty small % of the job of a pilot.
I'm not 100% on the investigation but I don't think they knew it was stalled. Why I don't know, it was obviously a hole in their training. Remember they do things differently over in the EU.
There was a stall horn that screamed "stall" in English 75 times during the incident. The air speed indicators returned during at least part of the incident showing an airspeed of 100 knots.
I fully agree that if programmed correctly the machines will operate with a higher margin of safety than humans being at control. That's what they do best. They don't get tired or forget things.
I think however we have quite a while before machines can be trusted to operate without error and mechanical fault and as of now machines can't really make decisions like a human can. Flying the airplane is a pretty small % of the job of a pilot.
And the "other things" are the thing the computer is best at.
I think it will be a while too. I believe the initial step will be single pilot providing oversight of the computer. It will be a cockpit certified in both two pilot and one pilot configurations. The primary difference will be software.
The software seems horrendous to me. So the software is detecting low air speeds and screaming stall, then the speed drops below a certain value so the software considers it invalid input and stops warning of stall? Idiotic. Common sense alone would seem to indicate that if you progressively decreased speed from say 200 knots to 100 knots, then a speed indication of 60 knots most likely means you are really going 60 knots and in a stall. Combine that with a decreasing altimeter that shows you falling from the sky.
The software seems horrendous to me. So the software is detecting low air speeds and screaming stall, then the speed drops below a certain value so the software considers it invalid input and stops warning of stall? Idiotic. Common sense alone would seem to indicate that if you progressively decreased speed from say 200 knots to 100 knots, then a speed indication of 60 knots most likely means you are really going 60 knots and in a stall. Combine that with a decreasing altimeter that shows you falling from the sky.
The AF system stopped screaming stall only in one period of this disaster when they regained flying speed for a period. It went in still screaming stall.
The airbus has a complex protection system that normally prevents a stall...the airplane simply will not do it. But in the case of this airbus enough critical system input was lost to force the computer out of its normal mode. At that point it gives control more directly to the pilot.
Here is a page on the nature of the airbus control under different situations...
The AF system stopped screaming stall only in one period of this disaster when they regained flying speed for a period. It went in still screaming stall.
I don't believe that is accurate. From the transcript review at 2:11:47:
Though the pitot tubes are now fully functional, the forward airspeed is so low—below 60 knots—that the angle-of-attack inputs are no longer accepted as valid, and the stall-warning horn temporarily stops. This may give the pilots the impression that their situation is improving, when in fact it signals just the reverse.
There was a stall horn that screamed "stall" in English 75 times during the incident. The air speed indicators returned during at least part of the incident showing an airspeed of 100 knots.
Exactly what other indicators would they need?
I've personally received several false stall stick shakers on rotation in transport category aircraft. If you follow programmed procedure you push the nose into the ground (not good option). Fortunately I could tell it was false and flew through it disabling the system by pulling the CB once at a safe altitude.
I'm not sure what you are looking for here. They didn't handle the problem correctly. But you gloss over similar events that happen worldwide and no one reads about them in the paper because the recovery was correctly done.
Computers do weird things, just the other week pulling to descend in an Airbus it started climbing, thrust went to TOGA, wouldn't come off, freaky stuff. A couple months ago we went to direct law when two ADRs failed.
I've personally received several false stall stick shakers on rotation in transport category aircraft. If you follow programmed procedure you push the nose into the ground (not good option). Fortunately I could tell it was false and flew through it disabling the system by pulling the CB once at a safe altitude.
I'm not sure what you are looking for here. They didn't handle the problem correctly. But you gloss over similar events that happen worldwide and no one reads about them in the paper because the recovery was correctly done.
Computers do weird things, just the other week pulling to descend in an Airbus it started climbing, thrust went to TOGA, wouldn't come off, freaky stuff. A couple months ago we went to direct law when two ADRs failed.
Actually they did figure it out...Unfortunately a minute too late.
And it should be simple to figure out what happened to cause that TOGA. In fact it would seem rational to require the reporting of such instances. There are logs available to documment what happened in the computer. And they should always be followed up.
I would think this is one of the more interesting discussion in Aviation. How do we handle the automation. These are fly by wire systems. No computers you are all pretty much dead. But the systems appear sufficiently robust that does not happen.. So it may well be that the weak link is the human and we need to decrease the human's role to make it safer.
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