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I feel sorry for Ken Griffey Jr. in this whole thing. He has almost been forgotten. He has never been implicated in any of this steroid stuff yet if you look at his numbers, he is one of the greatest of all time.
630 HR, 1829 RBI, 522 doubles, .541 slugging, 10 gold gloves, 1 MVP... those are all time great kind of figures.
His career followed the trend that baseball players (and professional athletes in general) has followed forever. You peak in your late 20s to early 30s, start a slow decline, get some injuries... You DON'T all of a sudden get BETTER at 40.
Anyway...glad McGwire finally admitted it. Frankly, we all knew and just looked the other way. It was comical the rate at which home runs were being hit not to mention the blown up proportions of the players.
What is shocking is the fact that people even still watch baseball. How can anyone take this sport seriously with all the cheaters that come forth (even today's stars) on a regular basis?
1.naive
2.an absolute puppet to the MLB owners
3.spineless (see#2)
4.not even qualified to wash my car
Every time I think of Bud Selig, I think of the 2002 All star game in his hometown of Milwaukee when at the end of the game the people booed for several minutes and then threw trash on the field after the game. Now I know a lot of that frustration was on account of how the game ended, but that also gave me a pretty clear indication of his standing in the community.
He may be all those things except Naive. He KNEW EXACTLY what was going on under his watch. BUT the most important thing was to get the fans back. The owners knew, the GM's defentley knew and MLB knew. So now the only guilty parties are the players??? You guys cant be serious.
As far as records go, if you take McGwires and Sosa and Bonds you have to take Clemens, Pettite, Palmiero, Manyy Rameriz, David Ortiz, Jason Giambi, Alex Rodriquez and everyone else who is connected. You cant just pick the HR record because its more high profile. Take away clemens strike outs and wins too? And ARODS HR's, same with raffy and Ortiz and Manny.
For me personally, as far as the steroid thing goes, I'm just over it. It happened, it pisses me off that it happened, but it happened, I'm moving on. Sort of like when you hit a bad patch with a spouse or girlfriend or something and one of you cheated, you're hurt, you have trust issues, but time heals all wounds. In this scenario, baseball is my cheating girlfriend. I'm just focusing on the now and not on what happened then. I've accepted it happened, that it was a lot more widespread then we'll ever know and I'm letting that be that.
Anyway, that little rambling preface wasn't my point. My point was that, for whatever he did wrong, in my opinion Mark McGwire truly feels bad about what he did. From his obvious uncomfort in front of Congress to his tearing up last night in the interview with Costas, here's a guy who I felt was truly apologizing. Compare that interview on MLB Network last night to the Giambi and A-Rod "apologies", those guys could give a s***. Hell, McGwire even apologized to the Maris family. I'm not a Cards fan by an stretch, and I don't know if McGwire is a Hall of Fame talent, but I can respect him for honestly coming clean. Even if it was years after the fact. There's so many more people, everyday people, that have things that they hide for years, why aren't we roasting them in the court of public opinion?
Ok, next. And last, but not least Speedaddicted, NO, I do NOT support MLB. When you keep on referring to "you" in your posts, I'm assuming you are talking about me. I had a chance to go to to one of the World Series games in 2007, when the Red Sox beat the Rockies, but didn't. The last Rockies regular season game I went to was in 1992. After the 1994 MLB strike I was done with it.
I don't buy MLB programs, ball caps, t-shirts, or jerseys. Shutting down the season when cooler heads could have prevailed ruined baseball for me as far as being an avid fan. The steroid issue with the game just underlines the point. And you're right, the fans are the ones who are the ones that lose out. The commissioner won't stand up to the owners for obvious reasons. Do I want the game flushed down the toilet? Of course not. I loved watching baseball as a kid, I collected baseball cards at warp speed, I played ball in high school. I love the history to the game. But as long as baseball's problems remain the same (which doesn't look to change anytime soon), I just don't hold the attention to it.
What is shocking is the fact that people even still watch baseball. How can anyone take this sport seriously with all the cheaters that come forth (even today's stars) on a regular basis?
There are some of us that understand that performance enhancing drugs, actually don't "enhance performance" that much. How can we take it seriously? It is still played at an extremely high level with outstanding athletes doing incredible things on the diamond day in and day out, I ask you how can you brush it off so easily?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUBLE H
I don't buy MLB programs, ball caps, tshirts, or jerseys. Shutting down the season when cooler heads could have prevailed ruined baseball for me as far as being an avid fan. The steroid issue with the game just underlines the point. And you're right, the fans are the ones who are the ones that lose out. The commissioner won't stand up to the owners for obvious reasons. Do I want the game flushed down the toilet? Of course not.
I often hear people say this kind of stuff, I sure hope you hold the NFL to the same standards as they clearly had a steriod issue (perhaps still do) but did a better job of hiding it, AND may even go into a lockout situation in the near future. The last line of your post is well said though, as though you may feel this way you do not try to hold everyone else to your standards, which imo is the right way to approach the situation. (you edited your post since then, but the spirit is the same)
Ok, next. And last, but not least Speedaddicted, NO, I do NOT support MLB. When you keep on referring to "you" in your posts, I'm assuming you are talking about me. I had a chance to go to to one of the World Series games in 2007, when the Red Sox beat the Rockies, but didn't. The last Rockies regular season game I went to was in 1992. After the 1994 MLB strike I was done with it.
I don't buy MLB programs, ball caps, t-shirts, or jerseys. Shutting down the season when cooler heads could have prevailed ruined baseball for me as far as being an avid fan. The steroid issue with the game just underlines the point. And you're right, the fans are the ones who are the ones that lose out. The commissioner won't stand up to the owners for obvious reasons. Do I want the game flushed down the toilet? Of course not. I loved watching baseball as a kid, I collected baseball cards at warp speed, I played ball in high school. I love the history to the game. But as long as baseball's problems remain the same (which doesn't look to change anytime soon), I just don't hold the attention to it.
Not YOU specifically Double H, you as in the folks who are jumping all over the players or better yet not holding the league responsible.
I often hear people say this kind of stuff, I sure hope you hold the NFL to the same standards as they clearly had a steriod issue (perhaps still do) but did a better job of hiding it, AND may even go into a lockout situation in the near future.
Shawne Merriman was suspended four games for steroid use in 2006 and still made the Pro Bowl that year. I still shake my head at that whole thing.
Didn't mean to be touchy on the "you" point, solid point on Orangeish, by the way. I DO hold the NFL to a higher standard. We'll touch on that on the fb forum, I don't believe we have done that, maybe not recently anyway.
One of my favorite players when I grew up was Sandy Koufax, and one of his best quotes was "When we played, all we cared about was the game." I am a little disappointed by a couple posts here, but a lot of fans do feel about the "let's move on" stance. That's ok, let's do that. But with the current situation staying the same, the steroid stuff will cast a dark cloud over the game. Too bad.
Every time I think of steroid abuse, the thought of Lyle Alzado enters my head.
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