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Abso-f*******-lutely. Are you kidding me? Zebo? My goodness. An 18 ppg, 9-10 rebound guy who can spread the floor (unlike Duncan) and hits 76% from the FT line?!! Are you sure you've seen Zebo play? LOL
Asik would be a harder fit. I think defensively he's just as strong as Duncan, but offensively he's very limited. Duncan is clearly more versatile in that area, even in his old age. I could still see San Antonio giving the Heat fits even with Asik.
Spurs fans need to just admit that Kawhi Leonard (who I predicted would win Finals MVP easily before the award was announced), put San Antonio over the hump. Without Kawhi's spirited defensive effort on LBJ, and his big game performances, San Antonio goes down just like in 2013.
I've seen Randolph play quite often. I remember him scoring something like two points against the Spurs last year.
Dude is far too mentally weak when the opponent is elite.
The fact that you think Duncan has been a role player shows that your basketball knowledge is limited to reading a stat sheet. Do the Spurs win the title if you sub in a guy like Asik or even Randolph for Duncan? No, they don't. But I'm sure I'll be called a nut hugger for disagreeing with you.
I've seen Randolph play quite often. I remember him scoring something like two points against the Spurs last year.
Dude is far too mentally weak when the opponent is elite.
The Spurs are the better team and are far better coached. Pop had a great plan to take Randolph out of that series. But individually, I'd take Zebo over current 38 year old Duncan.
of course finn_goebbles would take randolf over tim. he hates tim. you know the role player tim duncan.
randolph stats this season
17.4 ppg, 10 rpg, 2.5 apg, .7 spg, .3 bpg in 34.2 mpg shooting 46.7%
37 year old duncan
15.1 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 3 apg, .6 spg, 1.9 bpg, in 29.2 mpg shooting 49%
on a per 36 basis, zack is 18.3 and 10.6, tim is 18.7 and 12.
Both are all-time greats, but I'm giving the nod to Kobe Bryant.
Kobe Bryant is the unquestioned closer for his team for all 5 championships, and one of the best in NBA history at that job. Tim Duncan, despite everything he does, deferred the closing role to Manu Ginobili. As part of that role, Kobe is the No. 1 option to get to ball to for late-game free throws. Tim Duncan is so much a liability at the line, that sometimes he was taken out of games during close playoff games.
For me to give someone legendary status, he has to at least be in the game for every situation of every close playoff game, except for injuries or foul-outs. Duncan loses major points with me because of this.
When he was younger Duncan hit some major clutch shots. Remember game 5 of the 2004 Western Conference Finals? Before Fisher's buzzer-beating game winner, Duncan hit a ridiculous 16' fade away jump shot while he was falling down. It was so tough, he didn't even see it go in. And granted, Fisher spoiled it, but still, he's hit some tough shots in crucial situations. That said, I agree, purely in terms of scoring in the clutch Kobe has the edge.
Also, there are plenty of great clutch shooters who aren't even in the top 50 all-time. Robert Horry is easily one of the best clutch shooters ever, but is he one of the best overall players ever? No way. I like him, but he's not in the top 50, and maybe not even in the top 100.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Eagle
Duncan has passed Shaq as an all time player but it is even as a big Duncan fan it is hard to put Duncan ahead of Kobe they both have been so great it is really close.
Agreed. While I like Duncan more, it's largely a personal preference because Duncan is less selfish. Purely in terms of skill and talent, it's really close, with perhaps Kobe having a slight edge. Psychologically Duncan has the clear edge for being more team-oriented and humble.
I do think Duncan probably has more of an impact in terms of wins vs losses, not necessarily because he's better overall but because he's a skilled big-man who can dominate the post. [This is why purely in terms of wins vs losses Shaq arguably has the edge over Kobe.] It just seems truly great, dominant post-players are much rarer and more valuable in terms of winning, esp in the playoffs. Think about how few truly dominant post-players there have been in the history of basketball: I can only think of maybe 6 or 7.
While Kobe is clearly one of the best scorers ever and a great perimeter defender, this isn't nearly as unique. There have been literally dozens of great scorers in basketball history. There are probably at least as many great scorers currently playing as there have been dominant post-players in all of modern basketball history. This is why players like Duncan, Shaq, Russell, Kareem, Hakeem, and Wilt are/were so valuable. So while a convincing argument can be made that players like Duncan and Shaq might not be better overall, they do seem more important in terms of winning and losing. Jordan is the only exception I can think of.
Well, it looks like the priggish moderators won't let me keep this user-name, so I think this will probably be my last post. It's been great, take care everyone...
Not entirely fair to Kobe, but I think he has three rings as the second best player and two rings as the best player on the Lakers. Having someone as dominant and unguardable as Shaq as a teammate has to be taken into account when comparing Kobe and TD. TD has had good teammates but no one dominant as Shaq. I'll also credit TD for taking less salary so the Spurs can pay folks like Diaw and other important role players while Kobe demands nothing less than the max.
Not entirely fair to Kobe, but I think he has three rings as the second best player and two rings as the best player on the Lakers. Having someone as dominant and unguardable as Shaq as a teammate has to be taken into account when comparing Kobe and TD. TD has had good teammates but no one dominant as Shaq. I'll also credit TD for taking less salary so the Spurs can pay folks like Diaw and other important role players while Kobe demands nothing less than the max.
Uh oh...going to have to beat them to the punch and call you a laker hater.
Uh oh...going to have to beat them to the punch and call you a laker hater.
Not a Laker hater. I'll take Kobe over LBJ. TD-Kobe is debatable, but Kobe's salary demands doubtlessly hampered the Lakers' ability to make some key moves as he's gotten more fragile and as he will inevitably take a dip in production. Now admittedly this has nothing to do with the on-court debate between him and TD.
Not entirely fair to Kobe, but I think he has three rings as the second best player and two rings as the best player on the Lakers. Having someone as dominant and unguardable as Shaq as a teammate has to be taken into account when comparing Kobe and TD. TD has had good teammates but no one dominant as Shaq. I'll also credit TD for taking less salary so the Spurs can pay folks like Diaw and other important role players while Kobe demands nothing less than the max.
Relatedly, while Duncan has played with many good to great perimeter players, he's never played with anyone as good, or at least as preternaturally talented as Kobe. I think that says quite about when comparing all three: Duncan, Kobe, and Shaq.
In terms of Kobe v Lebron, I'd actually take Lebron: While he isn't nearly the clutch scorer Kobe is, he's a much more complete player and he certainly isn't a ball-hog the way Kobe is. Even as a Spurs fan I acknowledge how phenomenally both Kobe and Lebron are, I just think Lebron is a better, more complete player even if doesn't have as many rings.
Not a Laker hater. I'll take Kobe over LBJ. TD-Kobe is debatable, but Kobe's salary demands doubtlessly hampered the Lakers' ability to make some key moves as he's gotten more fragile and as he will inevitably take a dip in production. Now admittedly this has nothing to do with the on-court debate between him and TD.
Yeah, Kobe sucks. How dare he demand the most amount of money a team will pay him.
We should all learn from guys like mozahsuf, who gladly takes 50% salary cuts to help his company!
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