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Well Lebron is taller, stronger and faster than a lot of players but not better. Kobe has better footwork and is a better post player. Lebron will need to learn this if he wants to extend his career...the athleticism will fade as he gets into his 30s.
Yeah, Lebron needs to learn something....you're funny.
Everyone's athleticism fades. You see where Kobe is now don't you? I believe his is fading fast.
Yeah, Lebron needs to learn something....you're funny.
Everyone's athleticism fades. You see where Kobe is now don't you? I believe his is fading fast.
Yes, everyone has their athleticism fade, but some can adapt better than others. Much of Kobe's athleticism faded 4 or 5 years ago, but he has remained one of the top ~5 players. Jordan was the same way, but he remained the best 4 or 5 years after his athletic prime due to his elite post up game.
Right now Lebron is still pretty much in his athletic prime - the question is - what type of player will he be when the athleticism starts fading?
Just look at Wade's numbers this season. Without Lebron, he would likely average 25, 6, 6, 2. That would put him in the elite category - a top 5 NBA player. He's also a guy that has totally led a team to a ring as the best player. I'd say his peak was better than Pippen and they are about the same at 30 yrs old.
Without Lebron, he would face more double teams and get more attention from the defense. He would get fewer quality shots and he would lose his primary finisher that he assists to (Lebron). Without Lebron he wouldn't be able to take so many games off and baby himself to stay healthy. His field goal percentage would almost certainly go down. His assist numbers probably would too. He has averaged 6+ rebounds one time in his whole career, his first year with Lebron when he was a lot closer to the old Wade. Points is debatable.
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Originally Posted by eddiehaskell
Bosh is also a guy that a team could build a legit playoff team around. Leading his own team, I would say he is a 24, 10 big man which would make him arguably one of the best big man in the NBA right now.
10 rebounds per game from Bosh today is a pipe dream. He has averaged a 7.5 rpg in 4 years on the Heat, a team with no big men. Last season he averaged fewer than 7 and he's on pace to do it again this year. He is a terrible rebounder, he's physically weak and undersized, and he relies on jumpers too much. He was completely over matched by a 37-year old Duncan in the finals last year, and generally gets outplayed by any decent big man with size.
He won 27, 47, 41, 33, and 40 games his last 5 seasons as a Raptor. He missed the playoffs 5 of the 7 years he played on the Raptors. You can't build a serious team around Bosh. It's extremely unlikely you could even build a contender with him as the 2nd banana. As a Raptor, he scored a lot because they isolated him in the high post every play and let him eat up the shot clock going one on one. He can't score very well in the flow of an offense unless his jumpers are falling that day. On a good team that's not a viable offense.
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Originally Posted by eddiehaskell
Lets not forget Ray Allen - this guy is still really, really good. Just look at his dunks the other night or his 3 pointer that won the championship last year. I'll take the veteran Ray Allen of the last 2 seasons over BJ or Harper any day.
He's not that good, he is a very solid veteran role player off the bench.
Ron Harper put up 20/6/5 with 2 spg the year before he joined the Bulls. He was pretty damn good. Ray Allen is one of my favorite players of all time but I'll take early 30s Harper over late 30s Ray Allen.
What about Kukoc? Kukoc in his prime was better off the bench than Jesus Shuttlesworth is now.
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Originally Posted by eddiehaskell
Chalmers is just as good as 30+ yr old Paxon.
Alright, time to put the crackpipe down. Paxson was lights out. You should watch the 1991 playoffs. Chalmers only shows up about 1 out of every 5 games. He is one of the worst starting point guards in the NBA.
In the end, the pundits and fans will be comparing Lebron to MJ...that will be the discussion, not Kobe.
I don't know if that will be the discussion, but it should be. Kobe is somewhere between guys like Vince Carter/Tracy Mcgrady/Clyde Drexler/Domnique and Lebron/MJ/Magic/Bird. Better than the first group, not as good as the second.
Without Lebron, he would face more double teams and get more attention from the defense. He would get fewer quality shots and he would lose his primary finisher that he assists to (Lebron).
Wade has proven he can handle this. He's arguably a top-5 all time SG. Check out his career numbers. Do you think he never faced a double team?
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Without Lebron he wouldn't be able to take so many games off and baby himself to stay healthy. His field goal percentage would almost certainly go down. His assist numbers probably would too. He has averaged 6+ rebounds one time in his whole career, his first year with Lebron when he was a lot closer to the old Wade. Points is debatable.
This is true. It helps the Heat that they are good enough to have Wade playing similar to his prime even if he doesn't have to play as much. Could Wade play more this season if the Heat's goal was to win 45 games? Sure. Would he be able to average 25/5/5? I'd put my money on it.
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10 rebounds per game from Bosh today is a pipe dream. He has averaged a 7.5 rpg in 4 years on the Heat, a team with no big men.
Why crowd the lane when the two best players are slashers?
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Last season he averaged fewer than 7 and he's on pace to do it again this year. He is a terrible rebounder, he's physically weak and undersized, and he relies on jumpers too much. He was completely over matched by a 37-year old Duncan in the finals last year, and generally gets outplayed by any decent big man with size.
Bosh should be playing PF. The year before coming to Miami he put up 24ppg/11rpg - that's an elite big man. He's an 8-time all-star. It's funny when people dump on Bosh and say he's not good.
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He won 27, 47, 41, 33, and 40 games his last 5 seasons as a Raptor.
With what supporting cast? Looking at his last year in TOR, their 2nd best player was Andrea Bargnani....LOL. 40 wins probably gets him a 5 seed in todays weak eastern conference. I'd say Bosh was pretty special to lead THAT team to 40 wins.
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He missed the playoffs 5 of the 7 years he played on the Raptors. You can't build a serious team around Bosh. It's extremely unlikely you could even build a contender with him as the 2nd banana. As a Raptor, he scored a lot because they isolated him in the high post every play and let him eat up the shot clock going one on one. He can't score very well in the flow of an offense unless his jumpers are falling that day. On a good team that's not a viable offense.
Bosh is as good as the main option or 2nd option on several NBA teams. Why does he get max contracts? What do GMs see in him that you don't?
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He's not that good, he is a very solid veteran role player off the bench.
When your 4th option is Ray Allen scoring 10.5 ppg, shooting 40% from 3 and 90% from the line - you are doing pretty good.
No comment on Allen winning the Heat a championship?
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Ron Harper put up 20/6/5 with 2 spg the year before he joined the Bulls.
Shooting 42% as the leading scorer on a team that won 27 games. Regardless, you can't really compare individual success with success as a role player.
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He was pretty damn good. Ray Allen is one of my favorite players of all time but I'll take early 30s Harper over late 30s Ray Allen.
Harper in his early 30s was already robbed of much of his athletic ability. See ESPN for highlights of Ray Allen's athletic ability.
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What about Kukoc? Kukoc in his prime was better off the bench than Jesus Shuttlesworth is now.
Head-to-head, I'm not sure Kukoc was any better. He was a 3rd option offensively for the Bulls whereas Ray Allen is a 4th option. Thus, his scoring is a little higher.
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Alright, time to put the crackpipe down. Paxson was lights out. You should watch the 1991 playoffs. Chalmers only shows up about 1 out of every 5 games. He is one of the worst starting point guards in the NBA.
Paxson season average during first 3-peat - ~5ppg, 2 apg.
Why crowd the lane when the two best players are slashers?
If you're suggesting that Bosh rebounds poorly because he's stretching the floor for Lebron and Wade...the best rebounder in the league is a jump shooter who's averaging 6.5 3-point attempts per game.
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Originally Posted by eddiehaskell
The year before coming to Miami he put up 24ppg/11rpg - that's an elite big man. He's an 8-time all-star. It's funny when people dump on Bosh and say he's not good.
Bosh was a lot better 4 years ago, but still overrated and putting up stats on a bad team. He's an above average starting PF (playing at C now), nothing more. He's not near the player LaMarcus Aldridge, Tim Duncan, or Zach Randolph are. He's nowhere near a "superstar."
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Originally Posted by eddiehaskell
With what supporting cast? Looking at his last year in TOR, their 2nd best player was Andrea Bargnani....LOL. 40 wins probably gets him a 5 seed in todays weak eastern conference. I'd say Bosh was pretty special to lead THAT team to 40 wins.
Lebron, prime Duncan, prime Dirk, and other true superstars could win 60 games with that roster.
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Originally Posted by eddiehaskell
Bosh is as good as the main option or 2nd option on several NBA teams. Why does he get max contracts? What do GMs see in him that you don't?
The same reason Gilbert Arenas is getting paid $23 million by the Magic this year while he plays for the Shanghai Sharks. The same reason Rashard Lewis was making $23 million a couple years ago averaging 11 ppg.
Ok, Bosh's contract is not nearly that bad. He's not too far removed from being a max guy but those are just 2 examples.
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This magical performance in the '91 Playoffs was:
8.2 ppg, 3 apg, 1.2 reb. He shot 14% from 3.
Yes, let me put my crack pipe down.
I was mainly talking about the finals where he averaged 13.4 ppg on 65.3 FG%.
For the first 3-peat he averaged 7 ppg, on 56% shooting inside the arc, 45% from the 3-point line playing < 30 mpg. Chalmers shoots 43% for his career in the playoffs.
If you're suggesting that Bosh rebounds poorly because he's stretching the floor for Lebron and Wade...the best rebounder in the league is a jump shooter who's averaging 6.5 3-point attempts per game.
So this means what?
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Bosh was a lot better 4 years ago, but still overrated and putting up stats on a bad team. He's an above average starting PF (playing at C now), nothing more. He's not near the player LaMarcus Aldridge, Tim Duncan, or Zach Randolph are. He's nowhere near a "superstar."
Haha. Bosh would likely put up identical number to 4 years ago if he didn't have Wade and Lebron on his team. And I didn't say Bosh was the best PF. I said top-5. Current Duncan and Randolph are no better than Bosh.
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Lebron, prime Duncan, prime Dirk, and other true superstars could win 60 games with that roster.
Speculation at its best.
Lebron didn't win 60 games with a roster that included prime Wade and Bosh in '11. The same year he lost in the finals 4-2 to the Mavs. LOL.
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The same reason Gilbert Arenas is getting paid $23 million by the Magic this year while he plays for the Shanghai Sharks. The same reason Rashard Lewis was making $23 million a couple years ago averaging 11 ppg.
Both all-star players that had fell off a cliff. To compare Bosh to these guys is laughable. Bosh averaged more points than Lebron James in the '11 finals and put up 15/10 in the '12 finals.
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I was mainly talking about the finals where he averaged 13.4 ppg on 65.3 FG%.
Yeah, he had a bad finals, but you can't just throw him under the bus.
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For the first 3-peat he averaged 7 ppg, on 56% shooting inside the arc, 45% from the 3-point line playing < 30 mpg. Chalmers shoots 43% for his career in the playoffs.
Ok. A role player playing his role averaging 7ppg. Not a lot to write home about.
Chalmers averaged 11.8ppg (29 minutes) in the '11 finals and he shot 40%+ from 3 in '11 and '13.
I mean right now, sure. Have you people forgotten what Kobe was doing when he was Lebron's age?
Have you forgotten the supporting cast that Kobe had versus the one LBJ had to work with most of his career, until he got to Miami. And even then, having a dominant center like Shaq is something Miami hasn't had even with the big three.
I think that Kobe and LBJ are probably about even. I think LBJ's the better physical specimen - more power and more ability to make an unstoppable move to the court. Kobe's a somewhat more cerebral player and has been amazing in terms of his ability to shoot from outside with very limited floor space.
The criticism I have had of LBJ is that he has sometimes tried too hard to be a team player when he probably should have just taken over a game - though we've seen him do more of that the last two years and that's why the Miami Heat have won two titles. LBJ finishes games that he used to let slip away.
The problem is inverse for Kobe. He sometimes doesn't trust his teammates enough. Kobe's a ruthless competitor, which has served the Lakers well for most of his career. But at times, that drive to win overloads his judgment and he starts becoming a ball hog. And defenders zero in and shut him down.
Michael Jordan was basically the perfect median between these two.
For same reason that Tigers Woods has loss out to younger players:I suspect.
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