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It's a good move for next season in terms of item #1 that you mentioned.
Otherwise, it's a complete non-factor shuffling of the end of the bench. This is his 8th NBA team in 5 years after all and even before making him inactive he was next to the towel boy on Bostons depth chart....and they weren't exactly a good team.
Still a great trade for Cleveland, just not for this year.
Hey I agree with you! The world just stopped spinning.
Needs to be mentioned too its not 16M in cap space to just go our and sign someone- we need to package it in a trade and more than likely add a player and/or picks. So bascially we aren't turning this into Marc Gasol more like Bogut or J. McGee type.
I will say though as someone that has respected and defended Lebron for years (likely from many of the people that will post to this thread)....it's kinda insulting to Lebron.
I also like Love but he's not going to set the defensive tone that this team will need to reach it's potential.
Also, Lebron and AV are the only projected starters with 1 or more games of playoff experience under their belts.
I actually agree here too, goes to show you how far this lineup has come.
I like to point out 8 man playoff rotation
LBJ (The leader) NBA CHAMP
Marion NBA CHAMP
Miller NBA CHAMP
Hey I agree with you! The world just stopped spinning.
Needs to be mentioned too its not 16M in cap space to just go our and sign someone- we need to package it in a trade and more than likely add a player and/or picks. So bascially we aren't turning this into Marc Gasol more like Bogut or J. McGee type.
We often agree, you just get kinda amped up sometimes...especially when tradin' trash with some of the other posters. That's why I wanted a Cavs thread so we could get back to having more reasonable discussions.
I've already said that if the Bulls are out that I'd root for Cleveland as long as it's not against the Spurs.
They've got some long suffering fans.
P.S. Before anyone asks, I've been hating on the Cavs owner for at least 5-6 years. It's not something new now that they and the Bulls are rivals. I personally feel that Lebron was made the scapegoat for what were really his organizations incompetance. The decision was bad but Lebron leaving after 7 years was a reasonable decision on his part.
I actually agree here too, goes to show you how far this lineup has come.
I like to point out 8 man playoff rotation
LBJ (The leader) NBA CHAMP
Marion NBA CHAMP
Miller NBA CHAMP
AV- Significant Playoff experience
Yep, I liked both of those additions.
Lebrons on court impact in the playoffs however is roughly equal to all three of those other guys combined.
That's why any talk of this team being that successful without him is somewhat optimistic IMO.
So, Cleveland has a couple wildcards
1) The Coach. NBA games coached? Zero. He's coached all over the euro leagues and is supposed to be a good people person but let's face it, that's a huge wildcard.
2) The Owner. The Cavs have tons of potential but with all the new pieces it could be a bumpy start. Does he get impatient and start pushing for a new coach? Trades?
3) Waiters. A sparkplug scorer and sub-par defender on a team with a pair of forwards that should be getting 20 shots a game each and will score much more efficiently than he will. Will he rise to the occasion in a reduced offensive role or will he become a problem?
4) They are really thin at the center position considering the drop off from AV to the next guy. He's a GREAT guy to have on this team with his energy and defense. He may be the 2nd most important guy to have healthy on the team after Lebron. I can see Cleveland making other line-ups work if KI or Love are out....but AV...gotta have him.
5) Mid-season trades. Cleveland still has a ton of trade ammo. They can fix things they don't like much more easily than a lot of other teams in the league.
So if the leader of this team has that kind of impact why is it such an issue with Cavs doubters? You have three guys that have hoisted the trophy.
My concerns in order...
1. Health. Can guys like Kyrie and AV stay healthy.
2. Our HC. Had alot of success can he prove it on this level.
3. Can the group come together and play together.
1. Agreed. I have guarded optimism.
2. Dan Gilbert writes the checks. Lebron and Griffen make the trades.
3. I would like to see him off the bench and used as the primary scorer when you have a guy like Kyrie or Love on the bench. I actually think he is a perfect compliment to Lebron.
4. Center position...AV (25) Thompson (10) Love (8) Haywood/Kirk/Mid season acquition (5)
This kind of comment will set off the Chicago fan club, but it's actually not that crazy. Love would anchor a team with actual proper talent around him - more talent than he worked with in Minnesota, to be sure. I'd lean toward saying they wouldn't be deep enough to do it, but I do indeed think they'd get into the second round and potentially the ECF without Lebron.
As far as depth, if you remove Lebron from that team they could easily throw in a few decent players and make a run to the finals. Heck, throw in say Borris Diaw and Paul Pierce (both recent free agents) for a combined ~$13M/year (vs $21M for Lebron) and I think they're arguably the best team in the east.
We would have a Bulls 13-14 type season 48 wins and Play the what if game all year.
I disagree. With Love playing the Wolves went 40-38 out west. That's probably probably good enough for a 4th seed if they played in the east. Now replace Love's supporting cast with Irving, Waiters, Thompson, Varejao, Miller and Marion (both former champs that know how to play a role) - I think this team definitely challenges the Wizards or Bulls in the ECF. The only downgrade for Love would maybe be going from Pekovic to Varejao at center.
The fact that you can add the NBA's best player to this team is why I say (barring any major injuries) this team needs a championship....or at least take it to 6 or 7 games in the finals.
Looking at this team compared to the later versions of the Heat that went to the finals....
Varejao -- big upgrade from Chris Anderson
Irving -- HUGE upgrade from Chalmers
Love/Thompson -- upgrade from Bosh/Haslem
Lebron -- about the same then and now
Waiters -- downgrade from Wade, but probably not much considering his health.
Miller/Marion -- as good as any Heat role players
The Cavs are basically what Miami would've liked to have -- an upgrade at every position and a good healthy player to replace Wade.
Last edited by eddiehaskell; 09-26-2014 at 09:32 PM..
So if the leader of this team has that kind of impact why is it such an issue with Cavs doubters? You have three guys that have hoisted the trophy.
My concerns in order...
1. Health. Can guys like Kyrie and AV stay healthy.
2. Our HC. Had alot of success can he prove it on this level.
3. Can the group come together and play together.
1. Agreed. I have guarded optimism.
2. Dan Gilbert writes the checks. Lebron and Griffen make the trades.
3. I would like to see him off the bench and used as the primary scorer when you have a guy like Kyrie or Love on the bench. I actually think he is a perfect compliment to Lebron.
4. Center position...AV (25) Thompson (10) Love (8) Haywood/Kirk/Mid season acquition (5)
5. Hence why I'm praising the moves.
Re #2: The last guy that made the trades that they used to get KI....got fired because of Gilberts impatience with an obvious rebuild. To make it sound like Gilbert can't possibly meddle and fire Griffen is wrong. It's proven wrong. He just did it last year! But know he's just hands off writing checks? Please, I'm a reasonable guy but that's not debatable.
#3: We'll see. This is going to be a test of his character and the coach. Me personally, and I could be wrong...I see problems coming. Pedigree guys like Waiters that have always been picked high and with that shooter mentality....then you say "Hey, we are cutting your attempts in half or more and you need to play D..."
#4, Not sure what you mean with the () but AV is vastly better than Thompson etc. for the need which is to anchor the paint with strong D. IMO he's irreplaceable to the team.
Re #2: The last guy that made the trades that they used to get KI....got fired because of Gilberts impatience with an obvious rebuild. To make it sound like Gilbert can't possibly meddle and fire Griffen is wrong. It's proven wrong. He just did it last year! But know he's just hands off writing checks? Please, I'm a reasonable guy but that's not debatable.
#3: We'll see. This is going to be a test of his character and the coach. Me personally, and I could be wrong...I see problems coming. Pedigree guys like Waiters that have always been picked high and with that shooter mentality....then you say "Hey, we are cutting your attempts in half or more and you need to play D..."
#4, Not sure what you mean with the () but AV is vastly better than Thompson etc. for the need which is to anchor the paint with strong D. IMO he's irreplaceable to the team.
Re - Re. #2. Griffen just had the best front office offseason of any GM - so we can play in fantasy world or reality land. I've said on this forum you can't discredit was Chris Grant did even if some elements of luck were involved. You can't discredit what Gilbert did either eating 29 M for the projected #8 overall pick. Kudos to Grant for insisting the pick be unprotected Kudos to Gilbert for paying 29M. If Gilbert is an impatient man- its flaw Cavs fans can live with - especially if he's paid luxury tax in the past and in all likelihood is heading for the same destination to field a championship level team. Griffen and Blatt will be on their toes- shouldn't all organizations operate that way- this isn't a non profit organization.
Re. - Re. #3. You could be right. But somewhere this Summer it appeared there was an attitude adjustment with Dion. I point to the week before James' decision. It was reported that Dion was in "inner circle" and got a call from Lebron that basically said "get ready". I hope he's used off the bench and is utlized as a primary scorer when some guys are getting breathers. Its a big joke around here but Dion was every bit of the same player that Kyrie was doen the stretch last season.
Re. - Re. #4. () = Minutes. I agree I don't utilize AV as the Cavs did a few season ago 30+ mins. He looked good in FIBAs playing alot of minutes but I don't push it over 82 +.
I'll start it off by asking how you think Waiters will do in what looks to be a completely different role this year.
Will he go defensive specialist and balance out his game under the tutelage of Lebron or will it go to the other end of the spectrum with him being dangled as trade-bait for refusing to take 1/2 as many shots and not being defensively reliable?
Are we talking all-star consideration or shipped off or something in-between?
I thought you were a Chicago Bulls fan? I guess you jumped on the Cavs bandwagon. lmao!!
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