Realistic View of Moving 3 kids, one due in Aug, to Big Isl (Honolulu: middle-class, transplants)

[patrick4823]

My wife and I are lawyers in DC, fit, and familiar with backyard farming. We’re called to refocus our family on the beautiful world in which you live. I grew up in California and spent many summers on Oahu. I want my family to treasure it as I do.

We’d like to get a place on the Big Island that will support our food needs and maybe serve as a foundation for selling/trading natural food. I might be able to telework as well. Can you provide insight into what you all think? We’ll have a decent down payment for about a $350,000 place with maybe a little startup money left over. Are there places with decent internet so I can telework? Would companies let me squat (for a fee) from 2:30 am-noon and use a high speed line? Is all of this profoundly crazy? Thank you!!!

[patrick4823]

I should add that we're interested in and willing to work with a farm owner to learn his or her skills and help them in their daily duties. We're also able to assist in grant application writing, etc.

[Dreaming of Hawaii]

Patrick, what made you chose to look on the Big Island? Are your two kids school age?

Have you done some reading here about life in some of the different areas of the BI? When you talk about buying "a place" are you looking for a liveable house with some farmable land?

There are plenty of places, even here in rural Ka'u, where good high-speed internet is available at your home. If you can bring with you an incoming from telecommuting, then at least you'll have a way to feed your kids while you get your own farm going.

I have a friend who farms close to where I live and she has a blog with all sorts of good information about food production, animals, etc. She also was lucky enough to find a place with good soil and good rainfall in Ka'u, although it did take her and her husband many years to clear the land by hand. This is her blog: Homesteading in Hawaii

Other posters here life on different parts of the BI.

[terracore]

Due to FCC grants some of the areas on the BI that had the worst (or no) internet access now have the fastest speed in the state. We went from no internet availability (other than cellular/satellite) to wired gigabit fiber in just a couple of years.


"Are there places with decent internet so I can telework?" Lots of people loiter at the Puna burger king using their free internet and never buying anything. I don't know if they are working.


As DOH stated, bringing or raising school-age children here can be a challenge, though less so if you are financially able to provide an alternative to the horrid public school system.



This is a post I made previously on this forum:


My daughter graduated from Kea'au High School (KHS) in 2014. She transferred there in 2012 as a sophomore.

Due to reviews at the time we tried to get a waiver for her to attend the High School in Hilo but the waiver requires the agreement of the receiving AND the losing principal. The principal at KHS refused our request. At the time she was transferring from one of the best school districts in the nation into one of the worst. We did have a backup plan if things didn't work out for her at KHS but didn't have to use it.

What seemed like problems started right away. At her old high school her last math class was pre-calculus and KHS tried to put her into basic math. Our daughter was her best advocate. She came home and told us that she marched into the principal's office (who she was already displeased with for refusing her waiver) and explained to him she could TEACH basic math, she certainly wasn't going to take it again like in elementary school. He listened. Transferring in as a sophomore she had already taken any of the math classes that would have actually taught her anything, so they arranged for her to take calculus via Skype with a class on Maui. Unfortunately it didn't work out because the Maui teacher wasn't interested in helping the 3-4 kids at KHS who were supposed to be participating in the class, it was just like watching a recorded video of a HS calculus class. Our daughter said she learned more by watching calculus lessons on youtube. She got a good grade, but she credited youtube for her success.

In an ironic twist, the following year our daughter TAUGHT BASIC MATH at KHS via a mentoring program they had. Her words rang true.

By her junior year she had already exceeded or met most of the graduation requirements so the school decided to graduate her a year early, but it still left her with an entire second semester of no useful courses to take so they made an exception and agreed to let her take courses at the community college her second semester (at our expense of course) and give her high school credit for them. She graduated with many honors as Valedictorian and her stint at KHS earned her a tuition scholarship at UH Manoa- a college opportunity she may not have been able to earn if she had stayed in one of the best school districts in the country. A case of getting lemons and making lemonade. She is still at UH Manoa and studying pre-med.

I used to drive her to KHS and she would lament about having to go there. One time she told me, "My school caters to the stupid and the angry, there aren't any resources left over for the smart kids". She was specifically upset on how much of the budget was consumed by the "angry", basically the kids that required all the staff supervision and dollars because otherwise there would be big fights every day.

As far as race relations go, all of her problems were from other mainland transplants. None of the locals gave her any problems, though its important to note that we came from an Alaska school district that had very similar problems as they have here, so she grew up in a similar environment.

We learned that KHS had a bad reputation and that the school was placed on a type of suspension, I don't know what its called but it was going to lose its accreditation to teach high school. A new principal and other staff changes were made the year before we showed up and the KHS our daughter went to was experiencing the initial evolution of those changes. I don't know what its like now but it looked to be on the mend back in 2014. But regardless, in the Hawaii public school system you can't "set it and forget it". Your child will need an advocate. In our case our daughter was strong willed and was her best advocate and it saved her from getting rubber stamped through the education process learning literally nothing and starting college courses a year and a half later than she needed to. If your kid(s) aren't like that, you will have to be their advocate. The proudest moment of my life was sitting in the bleachers trying not to cry as my daughter gave her Valedictorian speech. In a way, I believe the crappy, pathetic, underfunded Hawaii public education system is partially responsible for making that memory possible.

I think KHS is the newest high school in the state and has the finest facilities, including air conditioning... which most of them don't have. It's hard to learn when you're fighting off heat stroke.

I'll add one last KHS memory that looking back I find very amusing. At the end of the year the kids decided they were going to have a "skip day" and everybody was going to skip school. Our daughter begged us not to make her go to an empty school but that is not how we roll. One of her teachers, I think it was 3rd period or something pretty early in the day actually called us (at her prodding of course) and explained she was the only student that showed up in his class and while he didn't condone skipping school.... meh... Never underestimate the ability of Hawaii kids to organize a skip day. I picked her up, the office signed her out for the rest of the day, and none of the absences counted against her.

[hotzcatz]

Having a mainland source of income is a great way to make things work in Hawaii. Usually finding employment that pays enough to make ends meet is one of the biggest challenges around here.

Backyard gardening in DC may not be much like many backyard gardens in Hawaii, but it's a start at least. CTAHR has loads of information on how to grow various things in Hawaii's climate and conditions. They also sell seeds selected for our areas. https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/seed/

There's probably already a farmer's market nearby for selling veggies.

I don't see growing and selling veggies as a method to make enough $$$ to pay back a $350K mortgage as well as cover the rest of expenses involved in raising a family in Hawaii. However, being a DC lawyer working remotely should cover that sort of expenses. At least, I'd think so, but I don't know how much a set of DC lawyers generally make.

[patrick4823]

Thanks to each of you for the wisdom and thoughtful advice. It means a lot to have encouragement and a reality check.

DOH, a few answers to your questions: We love the Big Island because we can affordably farm a c. 5-10 acre property and teach our children about the diverse beauty and activities of Hawaii without the urban challenges of Oahu. If I can telework to my DC job, we will move to the Big Island. If not, we are looking at opportunities for one of us to work in Oahu and the other stay at home (probably me as my wife is a military attorney).

We've researched different areas and love the Mountain View/Volcano area. But we are not experts and would love insight. One area that appears financially viable is Hawaiian acres. But we wonder if it will provide the rural setting we want for the kids.

DOH, thx for the tip on the blog. So much there! We're poring over it.

Teracore, thx for the head's up on the internet investments. I'm a telecom attorney so I should have known that! I'll look up some data from the FCC on footprint and throughput. And we hear you on the schools. Those are some sad stories. Our kids are 5, 3, 1.5 and due in August. We are planning to home school and are researching home school co-ops (any ideas on that?). Is that a terrible idea?

Hotz, great point we're not retiring on my tomato crops. If I cannot get telework approval (which is gaining steam among federal attorneys), my wife and I will look to Oahu for now and think about our BI dream for retirement. The CTAHR site is excellent, and we;ll get rolling looking at that as well.

All, thank you for the Aloha and great ideas. This has become a calling, and we are working on doing this in a way that respects the BI and those who love it. And we want this to be right for our kids. We'll keep researching and thriving on your ideas. Keep em coming!

[hotzcatz]

Almost anyplace on this island (Hawaii Island, Moku Nui, 'Big Island') is going to fit your 'rural' criteria, especially compared to DC. Oahu may not be financially reachable with three kids (you said another one in August?) and only one working parent. Rents over there have become insane and properties will be out of your reach, especially if $350K is the number you're looking at.

I don't suppose you can move over and rent for awhile? Research is all well and good, but depending on what you're using as research criteria, it may or may not be of much practical day to day type of living use.

A lot of areas don't have soil. They will have shrubs, trees, grasses, all kinds of vegetation growing on them, but no soil underneath the leaf litter on the lava. So you can't use satellite imagery to determine if there's soil. Depending on what type of farming you want to do, well, what kind of soil (if any) is available? Generally, if there's deep soil - the type traditional to mainland farming methods - then the land costs will be significantly higher than the 'agricultural' lots sold in the big subdivisions in many parts of Puna.

[patrick4823]

Thanks, Hotz. Agreed-anything's rural compared to DC! Yes, three kids and one due in August. We know we'd need to buy higher in Honolulu and can manage a place in Ewa, we think just barely. But it would be tight and have no space.

Renting is a good thought; we did that recently to decide the best area in DC before we bought (we'd been living well outside and needed to be closer in for our work). We'll lok into that. I also just applied for a couple jobs at the military bases on the island; they are doing expedited hiring based on a new law. If that pans out, we'll look to see what we can do with me commuting to the base.

In the mean time, please be safe all!!!

[terracore]

"We've researched different areas and love the Mountain View/Volcano area. But we are not experts and would love insight. One area that appears financially viable is Hawaiian acres. But we wonder if it will provide the rural setting we want for the kids."

It depends on what you mean by "rural setting". Puna is a place like no other. The neighborhoods you mention will have million dollar estates. They will also have meth-head squatters living under tarps and people raising fighting roosters. All on the same street. And regular middle-class folk mixed in between. You need to get your boots on the ground and do some exploration before you invest too much of your time dreaming about paradise without knowing what each flavor of it tastes like. If you are focusing on the Puna district a forum like punaweb.org is probably going to be more useful to you.

You mentioned gardening. The areas you mentioned also will have specific challenges for growing things. I know of an area where one side of the highway has 1-2 inches of pig mud and the other side has 16' of soil, but the vegetation looks exactly the same.

If you are interested in growing mainland foods anywhere on the SE side of the BI, you are probably looking at some form of raised bed / container gardening in greenhouses. If you want to grow real trees of any kind that aren't endemic, you will have to create an option for the roots to grow. "Ripping" is the process of hiring a gigantic bulldozer with a "stinger" on the bottom of it that rips up the first layer of lava and that and the weight of the bulldozer crushes said layer into rock chunks ranging in size from ping-pong-ball to bowling ball. Then the dozer flattens it so trees that you plant can reach the layer of soil that is underneath the top layer of lava. It permanently destroys the aina and invasives will move in and overtake the area without constant maintenance. But if you have 2 inches of pig mug on top of lava (which is much of Puna) there are few other options other than jack hammering a gigantic "growing pot" for each tree or plant. That is how the original Volcano winery vines were planted.

The cost of ripping is tied to availability of the rippers and the cost of fuel, but generally ranges between $7500-$10k per acre.

[Grassyknoll]

As of tonight, Puna real-estate is now going to undergo some changes in valuation.