Solar Panels Vs Wind Power For Kau/HOVE Property? (Paia: appliances, new house)

[chrisinhawaii]

Hi everyone (again),

Do any of you on the south side (or anywhere on BI) do solar or wind power for your home? If so, which do you think is better?

Or is it just way cheaper to go with a lot where we can do a SSPP hookup?

We're considering a move to Kau (from Oahu) and aren't sure what we can afford. I'd love to go off-grid and green, but I'm not sure our budget would allow enough panels/turbines to power an entire home. We've got 4 of us -- 5, if my mom-in-law can be convinced to join us -- and would use up quite a bit of electricity with the fridge/freezer, ac, lights, water heater, etc.

Any thoughts or experiences?

[Dreaming of Hawaii]

You need to compare the cost of installation of either of those systems. Obviously the cheapest is if you can build your own. Some people make it really cheap by stealing solar panels from unoccupied properties (yes it does happen). I think there may be a thread on the forum with discussions by people who have built their own solar systems.

The cost of electricity from HELCO is currently about 44 cents per kwh. A typical bill for a family of 5 could be as high as $300 per month.

We are not DIYers, so we paid for our solar panels. We have 16 panels for a family of two, and the initial charge was $11,000. Our monthly HELCO bill is now $20. If you build your own system, you may choose to be totally off the grid and pay nothing to HELCO.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by chrisinhawaii

Do any of you on the south side (or anywhere on BI) do solar or wind power for your home? If so, which do you think is better?

"Which is better?" is not really an answerable question. "Which is better for this specific location, at these costs, for this power load profile?" is a question that might be answerable, after many hours of research and calculation.

I will say, although there is a windfarm at the south end of the island, and there are some people scattered around using wind generation, much of Ka'u only gets 7mph winds on average, whereas 10mph is generally considered minimum for a good installation, and 14mph is preferred.

And lots of folks are using solar power generation to a certain extent, as well as solar water heaters (different technology), but again, you have to consider that with 80-95% cloudy days, and only 40-50% sunshine on average (less than the mainland) the panels won't generate at anything near optimum levels, so you have to use more of them, raising the overall costs.

Or is it just way cheaper to go with a lot where we can do a SSPP hookup?

Keep in mind that HELCO will only do an SSPP hookup, where available, when you build with a building permit, and that the total charged is even higher than the already enormous standard residential rate... typically about $40-50/mo additional until the SSP cost ($2-6K) is paid off . And you still need to hire a licensed electrician to do all the wiring, plus a licensed plumber to do all the plumbing, plus have a permitted wastewater system, also put in by a licensed contractor.

We're considering a move to Kau (from Oahu) and aren't sure what we can afford. I'd love to go off-grid and green, but I'm not sure our budget would allow enough panels/turbines to power an entire home. We've got 4 of us -- 5, if my mom-in-law can be convinced to join us -- and would use up quite a bit of electricity with the fridge/freezer, ac, lights, water heater, etc.

Just slapping some Photo Voltaic (PV) solar panels or a wind turbine on a standard American house won't make it green. You need to think your entire energy strategy through from the bottom up to reduce the total amount of power used... choosing energy efficient appliances, using LED lighting, avoiding A/C use... and then follow it up with supporting behavior modification, like turning off lights when you leave a room and using the shower and washer when the water is naturally hot at the end of the day. To do it right involves an entire shift in lifestyle.

I strongly suggest educating yourself thoroughly about all that is involved in going green, and building off grid. It's not as simple as hooking up to standard utilities in a city. There's a ton of material on the subject available online, and don't forget about the public library.

Good luck!

[terracore]

In some cities the power companies keep jacking up the price they charge for net metering, claiming its necessary for the financial burdens the power contributing customers are adding to maintaining the grid. Some places are seeing net metering prices so high the customers are complaining because it's approaching the cost of what they were paying for buying electricity before their solar installations. I don't trust that helco is going to keep their net metering rate around the $20 level.

Our family of 3 spends about $110 a month for electricity. We do have solar hot water, line dry our clothes, and do over 1/2 our cooking in our outdoor kitchen which uses propane. When we researched solar electric the estimate was that we would recoup our investment in 31 years.... assuming the net metering and electric prices never increase. They will probably both increase. If they cancel each other out, it will remain 31 years. At any rate, at my age I may or may not live another 31 years but our teenager will be leaving the house soon so our electricity usage will probably drop to the under $100 range which would push the solar electric payback time closer to 40 years.

For us the best decision was to install solar hot water (in most homes electric hot water heaters are the #1 electricity consumer) and wait until technology delivers a better option than what is currently available. I believe in the long run it will save the most amount of money.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by terracore

For us the best decision was to install solar hot water (in most homes electric hot water heaters are the #1 electricity consumer) and wait until technology delivers a better option than what is currently available. I believe in the long run it will save the most amount of money.

I agree. It's odd to me how many people overlook the savings they can get from replacing a regular electric water heater with a solar water heater. It's low tech compared to PV, and it's not "sexy," but it can be a big money saver.

[Dreaming of Hawaii]

[quote=OpenD;30046368]

And lots of folks are using solar power generation to a certain extent, as well as solar water heaters (different technology), but again, you have to consider that with 80-95% cloudy days, and only 40-50% sunshine on average (less than the mainland) the panels won't generate at anything near optimum levels, so you have to use more of them, raising the overall costs.


/QUOTE]

I have to disagree, based on my personal experience living in Ka'u. Our panels generate over 100 percent of expected levels just about every day. It is very rare that we do not have sunshine at least 3/4 of the day.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by Dreaming of Hawaii

I have to disagree, based on my personal experience living in Ka'u. Our panels generate over 100 percent of expected levels just about every day. It is very rare that we do not have sunshine at least 3/4 of the day.

Here, I fixed what I meant to say...

And that actually proves the point I was trying to make about needing to know the conditions at a specific location to do accurate planning, because there is so much variation within fairly short distances on the Big Island. The term "microclimates" was invented for the Big Island.

My classic illustration of this is the difference in rainfall between my place in Volcano, and the Volcano Golf Course & Country Club, which is only about 2 miles west, as the crow flies. But it is typical for the rainfall recorded in VGC&C to be only half what it is in the village area. And then the rainfall reported at Mauna Loa Estates, maybe 3 miles east, is often 50% higher than in the village.

[Dreaming of Hawaii]

Quite true about the microclimes, OpenD. As you know, I very rarely disagree with you. You are one of the most informative posters on the Hawaii forum!

[MickeyE]

As you all know by now Hawaii has put into law the requirement that all new houses must have solar hot water installed. Makes sense to retrofit solar hot water to older homes too.

Rummage around the posts here and find the links I have posted for solar/wind/alternative energy sites, including how to build your own wind generator and so on. If y'all don't find them let me know and I will post them again.

Mickey

[MattieJensen]

You have wasted your money on solar panels if the payback period is more than ten years. I installed a wind generator and house batteries in our home in Paia about 25 years ago and it's already paying us instead of us paying the electric company. In fact they now buy our excess. You will never accomplish that with solar.