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Thanks. Nobody has urged me to keep our guns for practical reasons, so I have no real incentive to keep them. As an aside, I have the utmost respect for law enforcement officers. At least in Portland, it's a thankless job. The few bad apples get all the press, but most of the officers we know are dedicated to protecting and serving the community, despite the bureaucracy's best efforts to thwart them. Interestingly, a couple decades ago, the Portland Police Bureau did a major recruiting effort from the Honolulu Police Department, offering better pay and benefits. Back then, Portland was an undiscovered gem, its people happy to be in the shadow of Seattle.
I suggest you look at it this way.
First, the cost of keeping them is nil
Second, the cost of re-acquisition will be high and possibly it will be impossible to do unless you go where the bad guys go for their weaponry (not a good idea, IMHO)
Third, the cost of needing them, really, really needing them, but not having them is high, possibly, the ultimate price.
Remember, it is far better to have them and not need them, than to need them but not have them (this applies to the micro and the macro).
Second, the cost of re-acquisition will be high and possibly it will be impossible to do unless you go where the bad guys go for their weaponry (not a good idea, IMHO)
Third, the cost of needing them, really, really needing them, but not having them is high, possibly, the ultimate price.
Remember, it is far better to have them and not need them, than to need them but not have them (this applies to the micro and the macro).
Thanks. We considered all that -- and they are valid concerns -- but we figured it's more dangerous having weapons that we're not proficient in using. I have a good friend in Portland who grew up in the country, served in the military, and collects guns as a hobby. He's a moderate Liberal and one of the gentlest people I've ever met, but he enjoys target shooting. I'd planned to get together with him and his buddies on a regular basis to hone and keep up my skills, as well as take some more advanced self-defense classes, but then COVID hit. If the BI had a gun range, then I might have thought harder about taking our guns, but it doesn't. Since Hawaii doesn't allow open or concealed carry, the only situation where we possibly would need them is a home invasion while we're home, by someone willing to killing us. By living in a residential neighborhood and having a home-security system with cameras, an alarm, and floodlights (and possibly a chain-link fence if we end up in HPP), I figure the likelihood of that scenario is extremely low. And if society collapses due to climate change, pandemic, or violent revolution, I don't want to be be around, anyway.
Thanks. We considered all that -- and they are valid concerns -- but we figured it's more dangerous having weapons that we're not proficient in using. I have a good friend in Portland who grew up in the country, served in the military, and collects guns as a hobby. He's a moderate Liberal and one of the gentlest people I've ever met, but he enjoys target shooting. I'd planned to get together with him and his buddies on a regular basis to hone and keep up my skills, as well as take some more advanced self-defense classes, but then COVID hit. If the BI had a gun range, then I might have thought harder about taking our guns, but it doesn't. Since Hawaii doesn't allow open or concealed carry, the only situation where we possibly would need them is a home invasion while we're home, by someone willing to killing us. By living in a residential neighborhood and having a home-security system with cameras, an alarm, and floodlights (and possibly a chain-link fence if we end up in HPP), I figure the likelihood of that scenario is extremely low. And if society collapses due to climate change, pandemic, or violent revolution, I don't want to be be around, anyway.
While I think you made the wrong decision, I wish you the best, and hopefully no need will arise in your lifetime.
One more thing I omitted. The police are under no obligation whatsoever to protect you. This has been confirmed by no less than the Supreme Court.
Their job is to step in after the smoke clears, collect statistics and then use those statistics to lobby for more funding. You're on your own, literally.
Have a lovely life in Hilo. I remember being temporarily tied up in Hilo Harbor, and the rain pounded so hard on the deck that I felt it would push us under water, well, it was loud!!!
While I think you made the wrong decision, I wish you the best, and hopefully no need will arise in your lifetime.
One more thing I omitted. The police are under no obligation whatsoever to protect you. This has been confirmed by no less than the Supreme Court.
Their job is to step in after the smoke clears, collect statistics and then use those statistics to lobby for more funding. You're on your own, literally.
Have a lovely life in Hilo. I remember being temporarily tied up in Hilo Harbor, and the rain pounded so hard on the deck that I felt it would push us under water, well, it was loud!!!
Thanks! Yes, I read that the police can be somewhat lackadaisical in what they respond to, but if you're in a situation where you'd need a gun, there probably wouldn't be time for them to respond, even if they were inclined to. With the smart-home systems you can get now, I figure that, if we're awakened by home invaders, pulling out my iPhone and triggering a loud alarm and floodlights would cause them to flee, if the very act of their breaking and entering didn't trigger the system. If I'm awakened by a gun pointed at my head, having a gun on my nightstand would do no good, and they'd steal the gun from me. Even with Oregon's concealed-carry permits, I don't know that I would have taken a gun inside the Portland city limits. Just drawing it on someone can land you in a heap of legal trouble. This ain't Texas.
Ah, yes, the Hilo rain... One night, my wife and I were driving back to Hilo along Chain of Craters road, and we got caught in one of the hardest deluges I'd ever encountered. But I also like the gentle rain that fell on the roof of her mom's house at night. I miss the warm summer rainstorms we had when I lived in Atlanta. As a Portland resident, I'm no stranger to rain, but it only falls during the colder months, and it's usually a light to medium drizzle.
I am sorry. I wish you and your wife the best of luck going forward.
I've been here for decades, and of all the people and families I have seen move to Hawai'i, I have watched far more leave than remain. Please don't take this as an assumption on my part on how you will do. As you pointed out, I do not know you. Perhaps those of us that spent most of our lifetimes here tend to erect defensive barriers of sorts. You don't want to get to close to newcomers, because the majority end up leaving in a year or two, and maybe that is why my posts have turned rather caustic. Regardless, I now see it's time I stop posting altogether, and this will be my last post on this forum.
For what it's worth, my neighbor, a now elderly gentleman came here as a young man in the early-1960's.He made is home here. Married. Children and now many grand as well as great-grandkids. We were having coffee the other morning, and he told me that when he wakes up, he occasionally ponders on the notion that there is still some malihini in him. That is humility that can only be understood here in Hawai'i.
Again, Good Luck on your move.
A couple more thoughts: I’ve had many instances of self-conviction myself, and I hope I never become so stubborn or arrogant that I can’t admit and accept when I’ve been in the wrong and haven’t lived up to the best version of who I aspire to be. You sound like a good person who has legitimate beefs with a certain type of newcomer to Hawaii. My wife explained to me early on the difference between “haole” and “fr***n’ haole.” I’m appalled at the arrogance and entitlement of so many Mainland visitors and transplants to Hawaii. But then, I’m appalled by them here on the Mainland, too. Which is a big reason that, if my soul was indeed born in Hawaii, I feel more at home there. And I know there are “pilau buggahs” in Hawaii, too. In any case, I sincerely hope that you read this and continue to post on this forum — but that you judge people as individuals, rather than as a member of a particular demographic. For what it’s worth, I work in the leadership development field, and I deal with emotional intelligence, unconscious bias, diversity & inclusion, and so on. My greatest epiphany was how little awareness I had of any of the above, and how much I had to learn and practice to become the good person I’d always thought myself to be. Ain’t none of us perfect.
It sounds like you have already made your decision, and I'm not encouraging you to second guess it, but one thing you may not be used to is the lack of police response. One of our previous neighbors, a felon who's not even allowed to own guns, shot off 10 rounds quickly on his property during one of their weekly Friday night parties. (To be fair, we have no idea who actually fired the weapon, but the fact that the party host isn't allowed to own or operate a gun is relevant). Their next door neighbor called the police, and they did not respond, or if they did it was hours later when they stopped looking for a response.
Another neighbor was alerted by the alarm company that his alarm had been triggered and they summoned the police. He was in Volcano at the time and took almost 45 minutes to get home. The police arrived several minutes after he did.
I could go on and on, there is even a FB group called Big Island Thieves that document similar stories every day. Granted, this is Puna and our police are stretched much more thinly than Hilo, but I also know a business owner who called 911 when a customer threatened to "shoot the place up" and even in Hilo it was 20 minutes before the first cop arrived.
On the other hand, one of our neighbors had to call the police (I don't remember the reason) and they showed up very quickly. It just depends on what else they have going on at the time and where they are at.
ETA: In case you are considering other options, Hawaii recently legalized stun guns, though the law doesn't take effect until 2022, and it still will not be legal to carry one with you, and it will require a background check and safety class. Though, I believe there is no 14 day waiting period.
Last edited by terracore; 09-02-2021 at 08:06 PM..
It sounds like you have already made your decision, and I'm not encouraging you to second guess it, but one thing you may not be used to is the lack of police response. One of our previous neighbors, a felon who's not even allowed to own guns, shot off 10 rounds quickly on his property during one of their weekly Friday night parties. (To be fair, we have no idea who actually fired the weapon, but the fact that the party host isn't allowed to own or operate a gun is relevant). Their next door neighbor called the police, and they did not respond, or if they did it was hours later when they stopped looking for a response.
And, if the next door neighbor had taken out his gun instead of calling the police, what would you suggest he should have done with it?
How do you suppose that would have ended? Seems like it would have just escalated a situation that otherwise resolved itself.
And, if the next door neighbor had taken out his gun instead of calling the police, what would you suggest he should have done with it?
How do you suppose that would have ended? Seems like it would have just escalated a situation that otherwise resolved itself.
Yes, those are my questions. I’ve tried to envision likely situations in which my having a gun would create a better outcome than my not having a gun, and I can’t think of any. Again, I’m not proficient with guns. I’ve often worried about a situation in which I had to make a split-second decision on whether to shoot someone or not shoot — and whether to shoot to wound or shoot to kill. That’s why I wave such empathy for trained police officers who have to make that decision, and who have to deal with Monday-morning quarterbacks who pore over all the details afterward and judge what they SHOULD have done. Read Malcolm Gladwell’s book “Blink” if you’re interested in how our brains make such split-second decisions.
Yes, those are my questions. I’ve tried to envision likely situations in which my having a gun would create a better outcome than my not having a gun, and I can’t think of any. Again, I’m not proficient with guns. I’ve often worried about a situation in which I had to make a split-second decision on whether to shoot someone or not shoot — and whether to shoot to wound or shoot to kill. That’s why I wave such empathy for trained police officers who have to make that decision, and who have to deal with Monday-morning quarterbacks who pore over all the details afterward and judge what they SHOULD have done. Read Malcolm Gladwell’s book “Blink” if you’re interested in how our brains make such split-second decisions.
I think you made the right decision.
Good luck on your move to the island.
It seems like it is well thought out and planned.
I suspect you will do just fine, despite some of the negativity you will get on this forum.
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