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People want the homeless problem to be solved it seems. They want their to be no homeless people. That’s really on the people who end up homeless. I get that bad things happen but most who end up homeless have substance abuse or mental health issues. I really don’t see the homeless issue ever being solved. Some states have more homeless people than others. Why that is I don’t really know. Seems like CA has a problem there.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 37,020,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridge781
People want the homeless problem to be solved it seems. They want their to be no homeless people. That’s really on the people who end up homeless. I get that bad things happen but most who end up homeless have substance abuse or mental health issues. I really don’t see the homeless issue ever being solved. Some states have more homeless people than others. Why that is I don’t really know. Seems like CA has a problem there.
You think it is on the people that who end up homeless, including those with mental health and substance abuse issues, to change the public policy decisions that directly let to the explosion in the homeless population?
No I don’t expect them to be able to make the changes. What exactly would you like to change? This isn’t Oprah where everyone gets a car. For people who have nothing and can’t afford a thing you seem to think it’s the governments job to hand them money and make sure they’re taken care of. Meanwhile costs continue to rise for everyone else.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 37,020,723 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridge781
No I don’t expect them to be able to make the changes. What exactly would you like to change? This isn’t Oprah where everyone gets a car. For people who have nothing and can’t afford a thing you seem to think it’s the governments job to hand them money and make sure they’re taken care of. Meanwhile costs continue to rise for everyone else.
I would change the public policies that directly led to the explosion in the homeless population.
Did you not follow the changes in Federal policy ca 1982 that directly led to this situation?
Did I mention "hand(ing) them money" once? Nope. But we do live in a "society". That's one of those things which means we have obligations to everyone else. It's no longer about me-me-me and mine-mine-mine. I pay for things others use and I don't directly benefit from, and sometimes those that benefit have no ability to contribute. It's part of the obligation of being a member of a society.
Oh, and not just Fed policies, but state. I'm guessing you haven't read about those either. About how California really started to increase their homeless population (not even including the people bussed in from other states) under Governor Reagan when he abdicated having a safety net for those affected by the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act in the late 60s. Yeah, guessing not.
I would change the public policies that directly led to the explosion in the homeless population.
Did you not follow the changes in Federal policy ca 1982 that directly led to this situation?
Did I mention "hand(ing) them money" once? Nope. But we do live in a "society". That's one of those things which means we have obligations to everyone else. It's no longer about me-me-me and mine-mine-mine. I pay for things others use and I don't directly benefit from, and sometimes those that benefit have no ability to contribute. It's part of the obligation of being a member of a society.
Oh, and not just Fed policies, but state. I'm guessing you haven't read about those either. About how California really started to increase their homeless population (not even including the people bussed in from other states) under Governor Reagan when he abdicated having a safety net for those affected by the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act in the late 60s. Yeah, guessing not.
So in short we should go back to involuntarily institutionalizing people where they are subject to rampant abuse in the hands of the "system". Cool man...
How do you interact with them (or avoid them)? Do you give money or not?
I remember being a little kid at the Intersection of Mass. Ave and Huntington and handing a dollar bill that my mom gave me to a homeless man who smiled brightly and said "God Bless!" In the years that followed, I got angry any time someone said "don't give homeless people money, they're just going to use it on drugs!" I thought that was a ridiculous generalization and I was surely wise enough to know who was drinking/doing drugs or not. And like the author of the article, whatever they did with the money was none of my business.
But over time, my stance has changed. Especially after working in human services and having a lot of exposure to homeless engagement/outreach efforts. For starters, almost nobody who works regularly with homeless people would advise anyone to give cash directly to someone panhandling on the streets. Not even because of the tried and true "they're just going to use it for drugs!" Mostly because it encourages the continued behavior of living on the streets. Many homeless people are presented with options to stay in shelters, participate in vocational programs, etc. But panhandling can be more lucrative and provide more freedom and a community that they prefer to the structure of a shelter environment or voc. program.
A few years back a homeless outreach worker told me that I should try offering something else instead of money when asked by a homeless person. So I tried it, and the results were pretty jarring. The vast majority declined. There was one guy who accepted a Dunkin iced tea every now and then (and I happily provided it), but almost always the stories were a ploy to get cash. A few examples (of many):
Man: "Do you have a dollar or two so I can buy a ticket for the T?" Me: "No, I don't have cash, but I do have stored value on my card and I can tap you in if you want." Man: "Oh, thank you, but here's the thing... I need to take the T to South Station and buy a commuter rail ticket and I don't have the cash for that." Me (knowing this is a scam at this point): "Ok, well I'm heading that way, I can grab a commuter rail ticket from the machine for you - where are you heading?" Man: "Well, I was going to go to Providence to meet my ex and my daughter, but they might be in NYC, so I need to see about an Amtrak ticket." Me: "Well Amtrak is right at South Station, so I can get that ticket there too." Man: "Do you think you could just give me cash? I don't want to buy a ticket yet if I don't know where I need to go." Me: "I can't do cash, but I'm happy to grab you a ticket to Providence or NYC if you need it." Man: "Not even like $20? There's an ATM there" Me: "No, I'm not withdrawing cash. But if you need a ticket I'll help." Man: "I'm good." *storms off*
Another:
Woman: "You have change? I'm starving and I need to get some food." Me: "I don't have cash on me, but if you want something from a restaurant around here, I can go order for you." Woman: "Oh, I'm waiting for my sister to get here so we can go get food together - that's why I need the cash, we're both hungry." Me: "Sorry, no cash. But I can definitely get you some food quick while you wait" Woman: "I JUST NEED CASH BECAUSE I'M NOT EATING NOW!" Me: "Ok, sorry I don't have any. Good luck." Her: "F**K YOU You F**king a**hole [continued on for a bit]"
So I don't do cash anymore. There are programs you can support that have a much greater impact on homeless supports than handing a dollar or two to a person with a cup on the street. They're almost certainly not all scamming for drugs, booze, etc. but there's enough of that out there that I can't do it anymore. And I can't rest easily on the "It's their money, their choice" logic.
We all have different experiences. I've never had an offer of food turned down.
But they won't go to the shelters. If people don't give them money, they'll rob/steal and/or resort to prostitution in some cases.
Enough people go to shelters that they are overflowing. Where I live they are always full. In Fort Worth, there is one that take people first come first serve, and there are always more in line that are out of luck, even when it's weather they can get frost bite.
Enough people go to shelters that they are overflowing. Where I live they are always full. In Fort Worth, there is one that take people first come first serve, and there are always more in line that are out of luck, even when it's weather they can get frost bite.
Generally speaking I'd argue we don't have a homeless problem but a drug and mental health problem. We should have never closed all the facilities we had back in the day. Some still operate but it's nowhere near where it was before.
The problem with the closure of the facilities is an example of the classic "It's broken, get rid of it entirely" instead of "it's broken, let's fix it" approach.
The institutions in MA prior to the 1980s were absolutely deplorable. They were called "hospitals," but they weren't really there to assist people in improving/recovering. They were there to provide a place for the severely mentally ill to live until they died and were no longer a burden to their families or the rest ofus. As a result, the "treatment" often ranged from severe over-medication for "calming" unruly patients to barbaric and invasive pseudo-science type procedures that often left people worse than they were before (often in vegetative states). Furthermore, there was rampant abuse of patients who were an extremely vulnerable population. So from that perspective, they will not be missed. Even if the "out of sight, out of mind" aspect of having the most severely mentally ill folks locked up there instead of where we all can see them (on the street) would be preferable to some people.
Reform would have been a better approach. At it's peak, the state of MA operated over 11,000 inpatient psychiatric beds. Today it operates about 700 (w/ 3,000 more privately operated). Factor in the 1.2 million additional people that live in MA today vs. 1970, and you're talking about an extremely drastic reduction of beds per capita. With the right level of support, many of the people living in those institutions could live productive lives in the community with the rest of us. But there is still a need for a greater inpatient mental health system for those who are not capable of living in the community, and those who are, but occasionally need additional treatment in a hospital setting. Instead, we drastically reduced the capacity of the institutions without providing adequate community/outpatient support and many of our severely mentally ill are either on the street, in prison, or dead.
I don't think "bringing back the institutions" is the answer. But I also think we need a much more comprehensive system at all levels to close gaps and provide the levels of care that are needed for everyone. Mental Illness doesn't just have two speeds - needing to talk to a therapist/take a pill daily & needing to be in a locked facility. And people with mental illness don't just fall into one of those buckets. They may be fine for 5 years, and then need to spend a month or two in the hospital. As it is now, we don't have a system in place that allows people to flow through it at varying levels depending on their needs. So what we're left with is extra homeless people on the street, Corrections Officers having to deal with mentally ill inmates that they're not equipped to deal with, and people simply dying years before their time because they're not getting the support they need. And band aid responses like fixing trash cans, putting bumps on benches so people can't sleep on them, or making medians uncomfortable to stand on so panhandlers don't beg on certain corners fixes nothing. Neither does saying "stop having kids."
Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
Is this the Fort Worth forum?
Exactly. And here in Boston, shelters turning people away generally doesn't happen that often barring extreme circumstances. We have bigger issues with getting people to actually come in off the streets (many don't want to). Or accommodating specialized populations. For example, you're not putting a domestic violence survivor on a metal cot in a room with 75 other men, a number of whom are sex offenders.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 37,020,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
I don't think "bringing back the institutions" is the answer. But I also think we need a much more comprehensive system at all levels to close gaps and provide the levels of care that are needed for everyone. Mental Illness doesn't just have two speeds - needing to talk to a therapist/take a pill daily & needing to be in a locked facility. And people with mental illness don't just fall into one of those buckets. They may be fine for 5 years, and then need to spend a month or two in the hospital. As it is now, we don't have a system in place that allows people to flow through it at varying levels depending on their needs. So what we're left with is extra homeless people on the street, Corrections Officers having to deal with mentally ill inmates that they're not equipped to deal with, and people simply dying years before their time because they're not getting the support they need. And band aid responses like fixing trash cans, putting bumps on benches so people can't sleep on them, or making medians uncomfortable to stand on so panhandlers don't beg on certain corners fixes nothing. Neither does saying "stop having kids."
You have that so right. Its bad at all levels, but very lacking for those with relative "mild" (not really discounting it) issues that can be super productive members of society, they just need "some" support, sometimes. There is nothing for these people. If they had that support early on, they may have remained productive members of society.
The system is just a total mess, and yes, they through out the entire (highly flawed system) instead of investing in it and fixing it. Shameful.
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